njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Out of curiosity, how much would you charge someone for a custom game engine? I realize this is a very vague question, but humor me. If I were to approach you to build a custom game engine for me, what would you charge? Something from scratch, with a list of basic features you'd find in most games today. But also a few you don't. Something that could standalone on a website, but also seamless be played on iOS/Android. What would your upfront cost be? Would you be interested in working full time on it? if so, what kind of salary would you expect? I realize I'm not giving you much information, but I'm just looking for some ballpark numbers to see if it's worth my time to sit down and devise a business plan to see if I can secure enough finances to pull off what I'd like to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodingKid Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 For a basic game engine with the standard features built from scratch you'd be looking at £1,500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 That seems a little low, mind you I haven't really shared much information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodingKid Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Standard features including: messaging system, attack system, events system, basic admin side management, purchasing system and donation system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G7470 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Depends on many factors, which some include: Programming language Degree of modularity Getting paid for the code or time Cost of knowledge transfer time Definition of "basic features" Degree of adaptability Of course there are many more, but it's extremely difficult to make any sort of estimate with that little of information. ~G7470 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Programming Language: developers choice Degree of modularity: Extreme! Part of the game will involve rolling out new features constantly. So a strong foundation will be required that will be flexible enough to incorporate new features down the road. Getting paid for code or time: Both? I just want the game built, and when our agreed contract is over, all rights to the code would default to me. Cost of knowledge transfer time: Not sure what this is. I'm assuming you mean being paid according to your level of experience? If so, of course I expect to pay whatever is reasonable for what Im asking. Basic Features: -Players, after they register and create their account should be able to either join an existing "world" or create their own world. -The worlds would basically be isolated versions of the game within itself. Players in a world would only interact with players who are within the same world. -The game would reset every 3/4 months. -Players would retain a portion of the accumulated wealth/stats. During a reset, players would have the option of either continuing to play within the world theyve been playing in, join a different world, or create their own. -A global world or default world where players can also choose to play in. This world would act as a "leaderboard" of sorts. The owners of the top player-ran worlds would have influence over the way this world operated. -A game wide voting system -A few basic features like a battle system, inventory, jobs, etc... Degree of adaptability: Not sure what you mean by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coly010 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 After reading your last post, I'd say £5000 for the general game. Then you want full rights , chuck another £3k-4k on top of that. You want it seamless on iOS android etc, shove another 1-2k on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G7470 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Cost of knowledge transfer time: Not sure what this is. I'm assuming you mean being paid according to your level of experience? If so, of course I expect to pay whatever is reasonable for what Im asking. Degree of adaptability: Not sure what you mean by this. To answer what these are: Cost of knowledge transfer time - if the rights of the code are going to be yours, then you will have to understand how it all works. Otherwise, you'll just be going back to the original developer to make any changes and/or additions. That is an added cost that most people do not take into account when creating a system of this size. Degree of adaptability - basically, this is based on the concept of adaptive web design, or AWD. AWD is creating various different views of a website based upon common screen sizes (more of a "fixed width" approach). AWD is usually pretty time-consuming, but not as extensive as responsive web design, or RWD, which strictly changes the website based upon the user's screen size and not as fixed. This is much more in-depth as this will require much more testing in order to perfect for a website, as this is a more "fluid" approach. The more "fluid" you go, the more expensive it gets. On top of that, if you would want this to be compatible/runnable on Android/iOS, would this be something that you would want to turn into a native application for each OS, a web application, or a hybrid of both? ~G7470 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) To answer what these are: Cost of knowledge transfer time - if the rights of the code are going to be yours, then you will have to understand how it all works. Otherwise, you'll just be going back to the original developer to make any changes and/or additions. That is an added cost that most people do not take into account when creating a system of this size. Degree of adaptability - basically, this is based on the concept of adaptive web design, or AWD. AWD is creating various different views of a website based upon common screen sizes (more of a "fixed width" approach). AWD is usually pretty time-consuming, but not as extensive as responsive web design, or RWD, which strictly changes the website based upon the user's screen size and not as fixed. This is much more in-depth as this will require much more testing in order to perfect for a website, as this is a more "fluid" approach. The more "fluid" you go, the more expensive it gets. On top of that, if you would want this to be compatible/runnable on Android/iOS, would this be something that you would want to turn into a native application for each OS, a web application, or a hybrid of both? ~G7470 Learned something new! Likely a hybrid, but whatever makes the most sense. Obviously I'm leaving out a ton of information, but like I said, I'm just looking for a bench mark cost to see how much I money I should be looking to secure should I wish to go the route of paying someone to do this, or starting a business/company and hiring the right people to do this and maintain it going forward. The game itself is meant to be unique and fun, but it's actually my business model that will make this game stand apart from the rest. Ideally, if the game were to be actually successful I'd like to get into a more immersive experience. The mundane aspect of a text based game (training your character, buying/selling inventory, decision making, etc...) players would be able to walk around within their worlds and interact as they please. Obviously thats a pipe dream, but its part of the end goal. All I'm concerned about in the near term is what I mentioned above. Build a basic yet fun game, and then once it starts generating income start planning/investing into the bigger picture. Edited May 5, 2015 by njfrlng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3Theory || Peter Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 After reading your last post, I'd say £5000 for the general game. Then you want full rights , chuck another £3k-4k on top of that. You want it seamless on iOS android etc, shove another 1-2k on that. Full rights? He would have full rights when hiring the individual freelancer to build it automatically. To charge someone for 'full rights' on top of the time they paid you for is ridiculous. Such practices are looked down upon and I started to see certain people on here use that as their argument when dealing with clients. It's stupid and immature. You get paid to work on code. Once that time is done, the client who paid for your service owns 100% rights of that code. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodingKid Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Full rights? He would have full rights when hiring the individual freelancer to build it automatically. To charge someone for 'full rights' on top of the time they paid you for is ridiculous. Such practices are looked down upon and I started to see certain people on here use that as their argument when dealing with clients. It's stupid and immature. You get paid to work on code. Once that time is done, the client who paid for your service owns 100% rights of that code. Something that I agree with 100%, how can you charge someone for a service and then not allow them to fully own what they have paid for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 After reading your last post, I'd say £5000 for the general game. Then you want full rights , chuck another £3k-4k on top of that. You want it seamless on iOS android etc, shove another 1-2k on that. That sounds alot more like what I was expecting! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Something that I agree with 100%, how can you charge someone for a service and then not allow them to fully own what they have paid for? Thats the point of paying you... I'm paying you for your time & knowledge. That would be like a contractor demanding part ownership of my home because he helped build it... the world doesn't work that way. lol Especially when you're building what I want according to my specifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodingKid Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thats the point of paying you... I'm paying you for your time & knowledge. That would be like a contractor demanding part ownership of my home because he helped build it... the world doesn't work that way. lol Especially when you're building what I want according to my specifications. Which is the point I was making....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 After reading your last post, I'd say £5000 for the general game. Then you want full rights , chuck another £3k-4k on top of that. You want it seamless on iOS android etc, shove another 1-2k on that. Sorry, I was interpreting this as you saying you'd charge an additional 3-4k for securing "full rights" to the game engine after the 5k I paid you to make it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G7470 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Very interesting...I'm glad that you are seeing this as a more business venture because other game owners who I have worked with in the past do not really have their head looking into the bigger picture. They're much more concerned about immediate ROI instead of an income that some of which will be reinvested into the game appropriately. That may not give that immediate ROI, but it will allow for a much better game down the road. I see that you have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to the business-side of things. If down the line you are willing to take the time and money to make the appropriate investments, I may be available to provide some assistance into this custom engine. Maybe it can be something that could be expanded further and hit upon multiple gaming markets instead of something more specific to provide a much larger user base. ~G7470 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) The goal is to develop something that can be enjoyed by anyone from grandparents to the hardcore gamers out there. I'd love to incorporate two versions of the game, that co-exist together in a purposeful/strategic way. Alot of the popular games out there right now set time limits on how fast you can upgrade your character/gameplay (clash of clans, boom beach, etc...) This gets people logging into their app/game constantly throughout the day to maximize their growth in the game. It's genius, but I feel like the current system is too greedy and doesn't really offer that much for the player experience. Not to mention these games are dominated by those with deep pockets or those that were early adopters of the game. Im looking to rethink the way we play online games. I'm working on a business plan, along with a game development roadmap. Once I get furthur along I'll start contacting the appropriate people. Login throughout the day to manage your character, but then sit down and immerse yourself fully in the game in a more animated setting. FPV, chat, etc... Right now I'm just curious to know what kind of money it's going to take me to atleast get a product out the door so that when I do shop around the business side of things, there will actually be something there to showcase. (Even if its rudimentary in nature) Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated! - - - Updated - - - Sorry CodingKid, I got your name mixed up with Coly010. My bad, lol Edited May 5, 2015 by njfrlng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coly010 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Which is the point I was making....? I get what I said may come across as stupid, but you saying that buying a service gives someone the rights to it isn't technically correct. You can buy a vpn service, but you don't own the rights to the vpn? [MENTION=65100]W3Theory || Peter[/MENTION] I wasn't aware that if someone bought code I wrote they automatically get full rights to it in the sense I couldn't use the code to set up my own game? Also the OP mentioned nothing about being hired as a freelancer, just how much would be charged on a custom engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniko Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I get what I said may come across as stupid, but you saying that buying a service gives someone the rights to it isn't technically correct. You can buy a vpn service, but you don't own the rights to the vpn? [MENTION=65100]W3Theory || Peter[/MENTION] I wasn't aware that if someone bought code I wrote they automatically get full rights to it in the sense I couldn't use the code to set up my own game? Also the OP mentioned nothing about being hired as a freelancer, just how much would be charged on a custom engine. It depends on the contract that would be agreed upon before starting the job. If all parties agree the work will be licensed under "LICENSE XXX", then both parties need to adhere to the licensing agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRB Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I get what I said may come across as stupid, but you saying that buying a service gives someone the rights to it isn't technically correct. You can buy a vpn service, but you don't own the rights to the vpn? @W3Theory || Peter I wasn't aware that if someone bought code I wrote they automatically get full rights to it in the sense I couldn't use the code to set up my own game? Also the OP mentioned nothing about being hired as a freelancer, just how much would be charged on a custom engine. It's called a work-for-hire service. A quick google search pulls up this, which explains it pretty clearly. http://problogservice.com/2011/02/22/who-owns-your-freelance-copyright-not-you/ Yes, a blogger/writer wrote it, but their copyrights on materials do not run much different to ours. In summary What people here are trying to claim is that if you have a paid job, any code you write remains yours - wrong. You are paid for a service. Within the scope of that service, since that is what you have secured the payment for, is code creation. Once payment is paid, whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, the code becomes the person that paid for your time/code. However you want to look at this, it makes sense. You paid for my time? Cool, the time it took to create X and Y mods was yours, therefore the results of that time are yours too. You pay for my code? Cool, you just bought my code without factoring time. Good on us both. I'd love to see some documentation on this "You can buy my time, but not what I do with that time" clause, that is apparently legal. I believe if people looked into it properly, it would be borderline fraud or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfrlng Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Also the OP mentioned nothing about being hired as a freelancer, just how much would be charged on a custom engine. I thought that was implied since I mentioned I've worked with people in the past, and wasnt able to produce the results desired. Which is why I was asking the question how much it would cost to have someone build it for me. No strings attached kinda thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coly010 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Well, I can honestly say I've been enlightened :) Thanks guys for pointing that out to me :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcvenom Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 It really depends on you, lets bare in mind the question "How much would you charge for a custom engine", I would charge a client on the basis of how much time there request would take, the scale and mass of the there request in this case a game & programs that i would use e.g Photoshop. The buyer ofcourse would own full rights to the work, due to the fact there paying you for a service and when your done that service its bye bye to your code and hello for the buyer, and i have recently seen developers imply hidden fees such as rights to work the have previously sold which in my eyes is fraud. For and engine of this scale although you haven't specified the full details i'd charge between 2-3k based on what ive read so far. Ofcourse my view of the price would depending on your requests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zettieee Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 You could get a custom engine made by someone like MTG (yeah it'd be similar to mccodes but atleast it'd be a little more secure) EDIT: Didn't mention a price because I didn't ask MTG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I would of charged ~$10,000 for the coding of oRPG Creator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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