Why MWG will be dead in 6 months: Let's spell it out.

[SRB]

So, I have been thinking about the direction this forum is going in and I have decided that it's shelf life must be nearly over.

And here are my reason's why;

1. It's being abused as a marketing tool

I am going to be blunt and straight to the point, you have people using their power to market their product rather than moderate the forum content. This results in a lower post quality that really serves no real benefit to anybody.

Take NWE for example - I guess I don't need to expand on that. Just promoted the engine in his post, but never actually gave direct help.

Let's take StackOverflow for example - post quality is far superior, you get a far better answer than you would here and far quicker too.

Obviously, stack overflow isn't exactly n00b friendly is you can't be bothered to some leg work yourself, but that's a positive: The lazy programmers who can't be bothered simply get left at the roadside while the show goes on.

2. The route for progression has ended

Let's be fair here; their is really not a lot of room here for development of MC Code mods anymore, since V3 being delayed so much has resulted in so many people leaving the forums as, in my opinion, all bases have been covered in regards to modifications.

Ok, so that was a broad AND bold statement, and yes, there is still room for modifications, but my decision was based solely on the fact that to push forward with mods you need to go complex, big and extreme, for them to hold some value now.

Who wants to make a mod, spend all that time doing it, just to sell at heavily reduced cost price as you aim it at the "mass sale market", to get a single sale?

Who know's anybody who has sold as many copies of a mod in the last 6 months (At a cost more than $10) than they did 5 years ago? Nobody? Me either.

We have shot ourselves in the foot

For so long, as programmers, we fought each other on price far too much, to the point that people now think $10 for a thousand lines of code is too much.

Yes we developers, all played a part in that, to some degree, over the last few years.

Updates being done, fixes not

The recent @ tag bothers me. Yeah I agree, it's something new on the forum, but seriously, what purpose does it hold? We have PM for a reason and since the activity on the forum is so low, it's not like we won't see the threads in the latest posts feed anyway, right?

Which begs the question; why add more "functionality" (Using the term lightly), when things still do not work? Code tags omitting new line tags in our code, etc.

Using offsite code bins

A lot of us have started doing it simply because the forums do not format the code correctly (See above), but some are actually thinking about this smartly;

It has been stated in the past that once a piece of code has been posted, it's sometimes hard to remove it, especially in the example I am going to lay out for why I do it across all forums now;

Say I said something to the wrong person doing the dictating (Not my words) and they decided the right punishment was to ban/delete my account.

At this point, you have no control over the many "Anonymous" or "Guest" posts that now creates with your wording, but without your user account to link to it.

Use pastebin and should it ever happen, you take the parts you wish to take with you - as you can simply save your pastebin and drop it off the internet (Or simply move the URL around)

Back to that dictating

Now, I imagine CB was actually meaning to say "directing", but let's be fair here - some of the mods do run around like minitlers (Yeah, mini hitler abbr. I just made!)

You know the ones;

* Moan about doing something, which they do in response in their own reply to yours. Hypocritical much?

* Failure to be unbiased - we know everybody becomes "friends" with somebody online, at some point - being able to punish them as you would the wider audience is the role you signed up for, is it not?

Final Note

I believe I have made all the relevant points, so I will expect account deletion at some point (It's the dictation this forum is going in anyway)

I think I've just about run my course here anyway, it's starting to annoy me how the direction has changed since mdShare had the forum and myself, Nyna, Scarlet, Decepti0n and SeanyBob were all keeping it in line.

All good people who I worked along side then -- all now gone and found the light. I feel like the lone straggler at the end of the queue :(

Anywho, feel free to add me on Skype: A2543AJ

NOTE: If you add me and I don't like you on the forum, I will just delete you if you act a tit.

Peace, bishes!

[The Coder]

Then do something about it.

[SRB]

Then do something about it.

If I was admin, I would drop accounts of people who act idiotic (Like you) and try to destroy the argument on low post quality, like you offer us on such a regular basis.

[jcvenom]

So, I have been thinking about the direction this forum is going in and I have decided that it's shelf life must be nearly over.

And here are my reason's why;

1. It's being abused as a marketing tool

I am going to be blunt and straight to the point, you have people using their power to market their product rather than moderate the forum content. This results in a lower post quality that really serves no real benefit to anybody.

Take NWE for example - I guess I don't need to expand on that. Just promoted the engine in his post, but never actually gave direct help.

Let's take StackOverflow for example - post quality is far superior, you get a far better answer than you would here and far quicker too.

Obviously, stack overflow isn't exactly n00b friendly is you can't be bothered to some leg work yourself, but that's a positive: The lazy programmers who can't be bothered simply get left at the roadside while the show goes on.

2. The route for progression has ended

Let's be fair here; their is really not a lot of room here for development of MC Code mods anymore, since V3 being delayed so much has resulted in so many people leaving the forums as, in my opinion, all bases have been covered in regards to modifications.

Ok, so that was a broad AND bold statement, and yes, there is still room for modifications, but my decision was based solely on the fact that to push forward with mods you need to go complex, big and extreme, for them to hold some value now.

Who wants to make a mod, spend all that time doing it, just to sell at heavily reduced cost price as you aim it at the "mass sale market", to get a single sale?

Who know's anybody who has sold as many copies of a mod in the last 6 months (At a cost more than $10) than they did 5 years ago? Nobody? Me either.

We have shot ourselves in the foot

For so long, as programmers, we fought each other on price far too much, to the point that people now think $10 for a thousand lines of code is too much.

Yes we developers, all played a part in that, to some degree, over the last few years.

Updates being done, fixes not

The recent @ tag bothers me. Yeah I agree, it's something new on the forum, but seriously, what purpose does it hold? We have PM for a reason and since the activity on the forum is so low, it's not like we won't see the threads in the latest posts feed anyway, right?

Which begs the question; why add more "functionality" (Using the term lightly), when things still do not work? Code tags omitting new line tags in our code, etc.

Using offsite code bins

A lot of us have started doing it simply because the forums do not format the code correctly (See above), but some are actually thinking about this smartly;

It has been stated in the past that once a piece of code has been posted, it's sometimes hard to remove it, especially in the example I am going to lay out for why I do it across all forums now;

Say I said something to the wrong person doing the dictating (Not my words) and they decided the right punishment was to ban/delete my account.

At this point, you have no control over the many "Anonymous" or "Guest" posts that now creates with your wording, but without your user account to link to it.

Use pastebin and should it ever happen, you take the parts you wish to take with you - as you can simply save your pastebin and drop it off the internet (Or simply move the URL around)

Back to that dictating

Now, I imagine CB was actually meaning to say "directing", but let's be fair here - some of the mods do run around like minitlers (Yeah, mini hitler abbr. I just made!)

You know the ones;

* Moan about doing something, which they do in response in their own reply to yours. Hypocritical much?

* Failure to be unbiased - we know everybody becomes "friends" with somebody online, at some point - being able to punish them as you would the wider audience is the role you signed up for, is it not?

Final Note

I believe I have made all the relevant points, so I will expect account deletion at some point (It's the dictation this forum is going in anyway)

I think I've just about run my course here anyway, it's starting to annoy me how the direction has changed since mdShare had the forum and myself, Nyna, Scarlet, Decepti0n and SeanyBob were all keeping it in line.

All good people who I worked along side then -- all now gone and found the light. I feel like the lone straggler at the end of the queue :(

Anywho, feel free to add me on Skype: A2543AJ

NOTE: If you add me and I don't like you on the forum, I will just delete you if you act a tit.

Peace, bishes!

It was good knowing you guest i guess im out too bye guys theres no future with MCCODES just disappointments......

[The Coder]

You're all now just jumping on a bandwagon. Jesus.

[Script47]

He does make valid points. I agree with Guest here. But maybe the time left is a bit short.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Script47

[Dave]

All totally valid points. With the forum reform we're attempting to give some life back into the community.

The community has been on the decline for a while and it seems to be picking back up to a degree.

[SRB]

All totally valid points. With the forum reform we're attempting to give some life back into the community.

The community has been on the decline for a while and it seems to be picking back up to a degree.

The problem is, I don't even think V3 would actually bring a lot back other than post after post of "How to convert this V1 mod to V3".

Just like what happened with the V1 to V2 transition - no new market was really opened - just a race to convert all old mods into the new version.

Personally, I think all forum sections should have a "guideline" post at the top, to direct on what is and isn't allowed. Perhaps with templates to be used in some area's (Job offers etc)

Could potentially clean the place up and make posts more relevant again.

[Dave]

The problem is, I don't even think V3 would actually bring a lot back other than post after post of "How to convert this V1 mod to V3".

Just like what happened with the V1 to V2 transition - no new market was really opened - just a race to convert all old mods into the new version.

Personally, I think all forum sections should have a "guideline" post at the top, to direct on what is and isn't allowed. Perhaps with templates to be used in some area's (Job offers etc)

Could potentially clean the place up and make posts more relevant again.

I agree totally. I don't believe V3 will kick start this community back. V2 has become the most popular version and the focus should be on that.

That is why I started my Milk project, allowing a new module structure whilst keeping all V2 functionality. Hopefully this will help aid in boosting the community again, but until it's released who knows?

Totally agree, I think there are too many boards for a relatively small community. The whole community needs a bit of a clean up.

Final Note

I believe I have made all the relevant points, so I will expect account deletion at some point (It's the dictation this forum is going in anyway)

No one is going to delete you, if they do I'll personally fire them. This forum needs the community to do things like this so we're able to determine what we're doing wrong and try and see if there is something we can do about it.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Dave Macaulay

[KyleMassacre]

I would have to agree with a lot here. I think the biggest issue with the forum is the childish negativity. It is very hard to keep order when everyone is bickering at everything or trying to just start an argument.

Potentially new people see this stuff and think that this forum is one hot mess, which in reality it is. People are afraid to post because they just get flamed if its not up to par instead of getting constructive feedback to improve. With that being said, constructive feedback doesn't need to be a complete slam on every aspect of the code. For example, you [MENTION=50378]Guest[/MENTION] (hope you don't mind, but I actually do value your input), the feedback you give, is it kind of harsh? Yes, is it constructive? Yes, but a lot of people here can learn from your methodology. And I know a lot of the times people see you as a giant prick and I know deep down that is not really what you are shooting for because when you post advice it is because you are trying to help people learn.

But some people here do in fact have some issues and I guess seem to feel better about themselves to totally try real hard to make people feel bad about their posts. And I am trying myself to make it a goal of mine to try and stop that.

And I personally think that in regards to this being a MCC forum isnt entirely true. There has been attempts to bring in other engines like like

 

1. EzRPG
   
2. NWE
   
3. Gangster Legends
   

 

Just to name a few but MCC seems to be the most popular and when people go and buy the engine from their site there is a link back to here so it must be pretty decent marketing on their end. I haven't seen a refusal to allow another engine here, granted I have only been here a couple years now, but still.

I do 100% agree with you on the fact that its super hard to develop a module and make a couple dollars on it because a lot of people think that it should be free which I think is preposterous. Should there be free mods? Well yes, but does everything need to be free, NO? What people need to realize is that people that can create mods for people need something to keep it interesting like some sort of monetary kickback. They dont want to pay for a module, but yet expect to make money on their game using our modules. Why even create donator packs then? Do they create donator packs because they spent some time putting together their game and think they should be paid for their hard work???

I think that about covers what I have to say about this at this time

[Djkanna]

Using offsite code bins

A lot of us have started doing it simply because the forums do not format the code correctly (See above), but some are actually thinking about this smartly;

It has been stated in the past that once a piece of code has been posted, it's sometimes hard to remove it, especially in the example I am going to lay out for why I do it across all forums now;

Say I said something to the wrong person doing the dictating (Not my words) and they decided the right punishment was to ban/delete my account.

At this point, you have no control over the many "Anonymous" or "Guest" posts that now creates with your wording, but without your user account to link to it.

Use pastebin and should it ever happen, you take the parts you wish to take with you - as you can simply save your pastebin and drop it off the internet (Or simply move the URL around)

This is very good point, the solution for us at the moment is to remove those specific posts as per request by the author.

However the thing we have issue with is not really knowing who the author is.

This is not an issue for the ones that are fairly recent, we usually can tell who it was that posted it.

The older ones predating 2011 for example, I cannot remember that far back, I don't think many of us can.

Back to that dictating

Now, I imagine CB was actually meaning to say "directing", but let's be fair here - some of the mods do run around like minitlers (Yeah, mini hitler abbr. I just made!)

You know the ones;

* Moan about doing something, which they do in response in their own reply to yours. Hypocritical much?

* Failure to be unbiased - we know everybody becomes "friends" with somebody online, at some point - being able to punish them as you would the wider audience is the role you signed up for, is it not?

Guilty, especially of the first... no wait of both, guilty your honour.

But I understand your point, at times I do find myself asking someone to stop being off-topic for example then go to the next post and do just what I asked someone not to do.

This differs from person to person that moderates in some form, I do imagine we're all guilty of it though at least once or twice anyway, not to be cliche but we're only human.

Final Note

I believe I have made all the relevant points, so I will expect account deletion at some point (It's the dictation this forum is going in anyway)

You've got nothing to worry about, you make valid points I doubt anyone will delete you ( if they do for this reason only then I vote get rid of them ).

I think I've just about run my course here anyway, it's starting to annoy me how the direction has changed since mdShare had the forum and myself, Nyna, Scarlet, Decepti0n and SeanyBob were all keeping it in line.

All good people who I worked along side then -- all now gone and found the light. I feel like the lone straggler at the end of the queue :(

See ya pal. :(

[Script47]

I would have to agree with a lot here. I think the biggest issue with the forum is the childish negativity. It is very hard to keep order when everyone is bickering at everything or trying to just start an argument.

Potentially new people see this stuff and think that this forum is one hot mess, which in reality it is. People are afraid to post because they just get flamed if its not up to par instead of getting constructive feedback to improve. With that being said, constructive feedback doesn't need to be a complete slam on every aspect of the code. For example, you [MENTION=50378]Guest[/MENTION] (hope you don't mind, but I actually do value your input), the feedback you give, is it kind of harsh? Yes, is it constructive? Yes, but a lot of people here can learn from your methodology. And I know a lot of the times people see you as a giant prick and I know deep down that is not really what you are shooting for because when you post advice it is because you are trying to help people learn.

But some people here do in fact have some issues and I guess seem to feel better about themselves to totally try real hard to make people feel bad about their posts. And I am trying myself to make it a goal of mine to try and stop that.

And I personally think that in regards to this being a MCC forum isnt entirely true. There has been attempts to bring in other engines like like

 

1. EzRPG
   
2. NWE
   
3. Gangster Legends
   

 

Just to name a few but MCC seems to be the most popular and when people go and buy the engine from their site there is a link back to here so it must be pretty decent marketing on their end. I haven't seen a refusal to allow another engine here, granted I have only been here a couple years now, but still.

I do 100% agree with you on the fact that its super hard to develop a module and make a couple dollars on it because a lot of people think that it should be free which I think is preposterous. Should there be free mods? Well yes, but does everything need to be free, NO? What people need to realize is that people that can create mods for people need something to keep it interesting like some sort of monetary kickback. They dont want to pay for a module, but yet expect to make money on their game using our modules. Why even create donator packs then? Do they create donator packs because they spent some time putting together their game and think they should be paid for their hard work???

I think that about covers what I have to say about this at this time

I have to agree here, I don't mind receiving feedback, even if it is very harsh. So long as it is constructive and will help I don't mind, but when people post complete utter nonsense and claim it's advice that annoys me. As for the prices of mods, people put hard work in to making them so when people say they are too expensive, that wrong too. Obviously if it's a ridiculous price sure you can point it out. But a couple £/$ is not enough for people to complain about.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Script47