a_bertrand Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Hi, I made my best to come as fast as possible with the developer version of the engine. It is a REALLY reduced version of the engine, loads of functions are not there however the concepts (beside a few tricks which should not matter for development) are there as well as all the infrastructure to develop and test your mods. As you may be surprised by it, if you expect to see the full engine, it's better you check the demo before buying it: http://www.nw-engine.com/demo_dev/ If you are happy and understand the limitations of it (which are beside a really limited number of modules the fact you cannot use it for a running game), you may purchase directly from here the license at the cost of 20$: http://www.nw-engine.com/index.php?c=packages It's still extremely cheap for what you get, as overall you get over 6000 lines of PHP ! I hope with this to make most of you happy, as 20$ should be repaid in no time if somebody is interested in your mod, and yet let you start to develop for the brand new fresh engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 great work on the quick developer version release :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Slightly off-topic but is there much interest in your engine at the moment? How are sales of the engine going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 The sales are going forward, and the interest seems pretty high for the moment. I suppose it will even increase over time as we will continue to add features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 The sales are going forward, and the interest seems pretty high for the moment. I suppose it will even increase over time as we will continue to add features. Just wondering on the potential profitability of starting to develop to your rather beautifully crafted engine. I'll have to see once a few games popup and see if there are any vast feature requests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well up to you, I can just say it's another option to make a game, and it tries to offer a solution which should comply to most of what was requested by the community. Now I know for sure that there is a few people which decided to create a game based on it, and with the help of illusions I will work myself on making the a full featured game which could be sold as further package. At that point I'm pretty sure we will gather the interest of even the most less skilled one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Well up to you, I can just say it's another option to make a game, and it tries to offer a solution which should comply to most of what was requested by the community. Now I know for sure that there is a few people which decided to create a game based on it, and with the help of illusions I will work myself on making the a full featured game which could be sold as further package. At that point I'm pretty sure we will gather the interest of even the most less skilled one. Hopefully this correctly built engine will be able to overtake McCodes and form a decent basis for online text based games. I'll watch the engine as it progresses over time and most likely end up creating something for it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 As said we can only all profit if we all contribute to it in some form. I mean, I would be as well happy if the community switch to let's say ezRPG or anything, and simply stop complaining. That was my major goal with this engine, to improve the community, and to show it I invested A LOT of time to it. I didn't offered it free as (beside my own time invested, the template I bought for it, and the money I handed over illusions for the great help), people on the board wasn't so happy about ZAP engine being free saying that every single one could use it and therefore there was not real value to use it. Not to say ZAP was even near the quality / feature set of this last engine of mine, yet it wasn't all that bad either. Again, I would say, if people like you, danny, dom, and many others start to offer modules, work, out-sourcing force to it, we will all profit from it. On the other side, if everyone is shy and just wait till it takes off, then... either you will be late and loose some profit at start or in the worse case the project will fail as the community simply is too shy to even jump on a new boat. 20$ for the developer engine is certainly not something you cannot afford, and with that you can already gain the knowledge needed to develop things. So all it needs is a bit of faith and that we all decide it's time to switch to something else than the old code you all complain about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 As said we can only all profit if we all contribute to it in some form. I mean, I would be as well happy if the community switch to let's say ezRPG or anything, and simply stop complaining. That was my major goal with this engine, to improve the community, and to show it I invested A LOT of time to it. I didn't offered it free as (beside my own time invested, the template I bought for it, and the money I handed over illusions for the great help), people on the board wasn't so happy about ZAP engine being free saying that every single one could use it and therefore there was not real value to use it. Contradicts with... Again, I would say, if people like you, danny, dom, and many others start to offer modules, work, out-sourcing force to it, we will all profit from it. On the other side, if everyone is shy and just wait till it takes off, then... either you will be late and loose some profit at start or in the worse case the project will fail as the community simply is too shy to even jump on a new boat. 20$ for the developer engine is certainly not something you cannot afford, and with that you can already gain the knowledge needed to develop things. So all it needs is a bit of faith and that we all decide it's time to switch to something else than the old code you all complain about. Are you trying to build a community or company? It seems vague, to me at least. @Dave: I'm sure there will be the initial rush of MCCodes ported to New Worlds Engine modifications, if you get into that it'll have you make a quick buck or two. After that, I'm unsure. MCCodes will still have the overwhelming hold on people as they do now, seeing how easy it is to get it nowadays. Over the next few months, my best predictions are that New Worlds Engine will continue to be developed, and a lot of inconsistencies will(should) be found as it's still pretty new, and mainly because it only had(?) one developer. The life cycle of the code isn't going to be stable, and by no means would I discourage anyone from buying it because of that. But, to contradict that myself, I could be wrong as well(not likely though), in the sense that the engine will be stable. (Newbs: Code being unstable has two meanings; either it's inferior(doesn't work), or it means that code is going to be changed(regularly). My intention is the latter.) I quite like New Worlds Engine and, despite my personal concerns, I wish for it to become mainstream. I just don't think it will be within the next six months, as it still has a long way to go to please game owner's needs. To sum everything up, I'm not going to jump on the bus just yet. Maybe buy a dev license, and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 As I always stated, I want to help the community. So no it's not after a business I'm after. Now you may not believe it, it's your problem ;) There is actually no contradiction, the profit for me is the community not the money. How much you think even a complete successful engine can make? 10'000 $ ? Would mean I have to sell how many, 100? Well... I actually earn a more than that every month with my employee work... so... it will not change my life. This is an hobby for me Spudinski, nothing else. If you didn't understood it yet, then... I can't help much. For the code changing over the couple of next months, you may are right. Sure I could leave all like that and just hope somebody will jump on the band wagon (BTW, sorry to contradict you, but Illusions already started to work on it, and already release some mods, so no I'm not alone anymore ;) ). Second option, is to continue to work on the engine. Now... being an engine and that it doesn't work like you are used to with McCodes, I can either simply add new features which are still missing, or improve the one offered. In both cases it will not stop anybody or make anybody loose time. Why? Because as long as I don't change the engine mechanism, your own developed modules will still work. You add content? Fine, it will again have no impact. So I hardly see why having an engine which will continue to grow is a negative point. Sure, game owners will not start with 1000 different modules (many being all the same actually). However whoever made a true running game knows that a game is not just a set of mods bought or free installed on some module. A game can be purely a story, or have actually not too many features at first and still run, where a game with loads of mods which are all decoupled will... be just a junkyard. Example of this, I saw that many actually had fun with my little web quest, where there was NO CODE, so the point it, the code by itself will do nothing where actually a good story can do all. I do feel you are overly negative Spudinsi (over most of the posts and about nearly everything), and yet do not offer much yourself to the community it's a shame as I'm sure we could actually profit more from a collaboration than simply negativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 As I always stated, I want to help the community. So no it's not after a business I'm after. Now you may not believe it, it's your problem ;) :D -tooshort- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Make you smile? good... BTW I edited my post after you posted yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Ok, was a bit early for me then. I do not think I am negative, I'm realistic. I also don't believe my overall posting attitude is negative, I didn't even try to be with my last post on this thread. If you could point out what about my posts are negative, I'd gracefully keep it in mind when posting. I might not know everything about web games, but I know how to develop them and what makes them tick psychologically. That gives me the knowledge to make accurate assumptions, maybe they are not correct some times, indeed, but that is seldom. -------------------------------------- I was asking the original question as reference to other people. As you know, MCCodes is a company much more than community, mainly because they are focused on the profit of what they do. That may differ with you, and your new release of a GE, but it does not exempt you to be seen as an entity with a product for sale. With regards to profit, I would think that the amount is not to be spoken about, as it should remain confidential between you and whomever work with you on the project. As for your salary, I really could care how much someone other than me makes. The stability of your code I was referring to, I am actually promoting it. My views on it is that developers shouldn't expect to create a module for your engine and have it stay indefinitely usable without making changes as the source continues to expand and improve. I have to be realistic here, it is going to go through major changes within the next few months, and potential developers should know that they will have to keep a close eye on it. I am fond of improvement, well, over reusing, and I would also have suggested that approach. I would gladly continue talk you away from a public board if you think I'm breaking down the reputation of your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 I'm not if favor of moving this discussion anywhere else. If you have your opinion please share. Even if you don't believe the project is any good (I don't say you said so). Again for the stability of the engine itself, I will try my best to not introduce breaking changes. Where on the modules, nothing is granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny696 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Ech, just wish I had $20 -.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rulerofzu Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 I came across this situation about 6months ago. Really needed to update software but for some of the modifications the developer had decided to not upgrade any of the mods. And that says it all really. Alain is the developer of the engine and can in the future take it where ever he sees fit. Any 3rd party modifications are down to the developer to make adjustments. If the developer doesnt wish to and calls end of life on their mods then the end user has a choice. Find someone that will or dont upgrade to the latest engine release. Danny seriously you dont have $20?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Nicely said rulerofzu. @Danny, I'll donate half to your cause. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Shall I take an example we are all faced to? PHP => It's not new, it's actually starting to show it's age but that's another issue, and yet with basically each new release being 5, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4 you have breaking changes. Shall you stop developing with PHP? No. Shall PHP developer stop improving the language? No. Yet honestly adding breaking changes when the change is not bringing all that much and actually with each new release you have new breaking change it's not all that good. I certainly don't want to do the same. I can't promise I will never do a breaking change. However I'm more than willing to discuss everything openly here or in a private part of the forum. I will for sure inform of any breaking change, and I'm even willing to talk about possible road maps. More than that, I hardly see what you could expect. Sure if you don't want any change at all, the solution is dead simple. I leave the engine as it is (as you stated yourself spudinski). But we all know that this is not was you guys want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rulerofzu Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I fully support further development and as I stated above if you have modifications or get them made for you then you have to roll with it. At the end of the day improvements, new features and further advances in both PHP and MySQLi are going to make your project better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uridium Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Im not sure what your all complaining about (well not everybody) but a select few I think youve got this vision in your minds that this engine isnt what like another one offers thats cos this one isnt the other engine.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny696 Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 May I ask what would happen if I bought this version, and used it to make a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 As said, you are not allowed to use it in a game. If you do so, I will lock down the license which will cut you off the market place (download, upload, upgrades and all) as well as issue a DMCA. The license is valid for your own development and to help you produce modules. If you need a license to run a game and have a developer version, please contact me and we shall discuss a way to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 As said, you are not allowed to use it in a game. If you do so, I will lock down the license which will cut you off the market place (download, upload, upgrades and all) as well as issue a DMCA. The license is valid for your own development and to help you produce modules. If you need a license to run a game and have a developer version, please contact me and we shall discuss a way to handle it. I'd suggest you get a lawyer to write up an agreement for you. What you are saying is illegal to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rulerofzu Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hardly doubt that its illegal. By purchasing Alain can get you to agree to whatever in his terms and conditions. Your then bound by that which forms a contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Those are the terms: http://www.nw-engine.com/wiki/index.php/License_agreement And revoking the license is a right the copyright owner have. Check for example a license agreement I found on the net: http://www.latshawsystems.com/SoftwareLicenseAgreement.aspx Section GRANT OF LICENSE: "Latshaw Systems reserves the right to revoked any software license for any reason, including, but not limited to breach of this agreement or if piracy is detected." For sure this is not illegal and is actually normal practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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