Nickson Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'd suggest you get a lawyer to write up an agreement for you. What you are saying is illegal to do. without saying it is or it isn't. What makes you think it is illegal to take such action? Do you have any documents or text that we can actually read from a source? Not that it will make a difference, but having something to read might shed some more light on it. Probably more than "it's illegal" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeB Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Looks awesome! I'll buy when i get cash for sure! I'd suggest you get a lawyer to write up an agreement for you. What you are saying is illegal to do. It isn't illegal. I used to sell plugins for MyBB and i did that all the time to people who violated my TOS Edited March 26, 2012 by booher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirChick Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I'd suggest you get a lawyer to write up an agreement for you. What you are saying is illegal to do. I suggest you go back to law school or consider going to one to learn, what you just said made you sound really ignorant. IF he owns the rights to it - he can do as he wishes with it - you either agree to it or don't use it. Whats difficult to understand about that? Microsoft do the exact same thing that you claim is illegal.. called MSDN. Android and Ipads also have developer tablets/software which can be run on PCs. There are sony playstation developer consoles etc the list goes on... Edited March 26, 2012 by SirChick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 To Alain... Within my country, we have something called the "Consumer Act" of 2008. I know the UK has something similar, I'll find it when I get home later tonight. It states that you can't attempt to sell somebody bundled items as a product, for which you can not transparently show the benefits(locally) of it. In this situation, Alain, you are bundling templates, modules and the right to use it. If I do not require the template or modules, you can't force me to buy the more expensive product just so I have a right to use the product. Oh, @Everyone else. Get off your wagons. SirChick: I'd suggest you read what this is about. Further more, this isn't 1940 where the creator has the last say. If you want more rights, you need to create an righted entity, a common human falls short with regards to setting their own terms to sell something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 True, but I could say that the right to use it in production alone cost 100$, where the right to develop cost 20$ and you could not say it's not true. Also, keep in mind you run under Swiss laws as those are the one from the seller (myself). I'm not therefore even in EU. BTW this is another problem which in my opinion have little to do with the fact I could revoke or not the license. And this kind of laws are usually used for phone or other service packages, not for software. Otherwise you could go to Microsoft and say, I don't need MsPaint, I don't need IE, I don't need Media Player, therefore cut in half your price. So I doubt this applies well in the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickson Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Well spud, sadly enough laws are a complicated thing and they are different all over the place. Here in belgium you have a natural righted person, a limited righted entity, a nameless, but full righted entity and quite a few more and they all have different details. However, that is rather different from a product itself. NWE is a package, the core, some modules, a template, some documentation and a license... for the total price of $100. What you really pay for is the license and the core of the engine more than the actual modules and other code/work. You're free to uninstall the modules and what not or upload another template without issue. Those extra modules/templates are just given to you freely to give the work more body. It's when you violate the tos/t&c that the license will be revoked. I'm quite sure you also agree with that when you buy it. And before you say, but "the core and license only costs $20 when you look at the developers version ..." Well no, the product also costs $100, he's just giving you a discount and booking a loss for other "business opportunities" which are perfectly fine and defensible ;) Again, whether it's 100% correct/legal/illegal. I don't have a clue as I'm no lawyer. @alain. In that example, microsoft did have to change the way they made a browser available on systems from the EU. Which was utter bull imho as they didn't force you to use it. You could simply download something else if you didn't like it. Price of the OS stayed the same though as it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yes they had an issue with the browser but not because of a "bundle" or package but due to market dominance. So basically it was the EU allowing others to develop a browser. Microsoft enforcing you their browser has been seen as a treat as they could decide the future of the web. Apple which do exactly the same (with safari) doesn't have yet the issue due to the very small market of it. Wait till somebody sue them for the fact you can't really replace safari inside an iphone or other things. Anyhow can we get back to topic? I think everyone said it's own opinion on the issue, but this has very little to do with the engine itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickson Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Microsoft didn't enforce you to use IE. apple doesn't do the same as you can install firefox if you want to. You just can't get rid of it completely without effort. Not that it matters a lot because they'll find a way to make you install it anyhow. In my eyes, they just give you a free product extra which enabled extra features... Still you buy that product, no one is forcing you to buy at as you have choices enough. Heck, why don't we just sue hardware manufactures because they sell their product with an OS on top of it! I find that worse than having IE installed on my windows ... my apologies on that. So, yes let's get back on topic. Great initiative to release a developers edition so developers who do not wish to run a game can still create modules for a lesser cost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 No offence, as Im sure your engine is skillfully crafted, but 6,000 lines of code for an entire engine (i know 10k for full version but still) thats not very much. Not for an engine. If anything you should be boasting that it has "only" 6000 lines. Ive seen less functionality in more lines. Some mccode mods have close to 2,000 lines on their own. Just saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 2000 lines for a mod? Then maybe it's a lot of copy / paste ;) Sure it's not HUGE, it's simply enough and not that small for an engine. Don't mix engine and game Arson! It's an engine not a game. BTW If it's too small for your taste check at least what it can do, and then let's discuss about the size. It was just to give an idea of the work behind, but as you stated and demonstrated it may means a lot or nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 2000 lines for a mod? Then maybe it's a lot of copy / paste ;) Sure it's not HUGE, it's simply enough and not that small for an engine. Don't mix engine and game Arson! It's an engine not a game. BTW If it's too small for your taste check at least what it can do, and then let's discuss about the size. It was just to give an idea of the work behind, but as you stated and demonstrated it may means a lot or nothing. My gallary mod = 1527 lines, without Javascripts, stylesheets or configuration files. Would you like to rephrase? MCCodes V3 ALPHA: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Language files blank comment code ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PHP 56 588 1687 9518 XML 21 0 0 809 CSS 1 29 0 128 SQL 3 15 24 49 Javascript 2 2 24 38 HTML 3 0 0 33 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUM: 86 634 1735 10575 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How about now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_bertrand Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Then let's say I do really compressed code ;) But again, does that really matter? Is it better to have millions lines of code which you cannot understand or a couple of well written one? or in another case you could have 2 lines totally un-redable (think about complex regexp) or 100 which all make sense. Sorry but just comparing lines of code means... little. Also Spudinksi, I don't need to rephrase, your mod does basically all the functions of a gallery script, with even an admin side of it as far as I can see from the feature list. So it's more a gallery script than simply a mod. Doesn't surprises me it has 1527 lines of code. On the other side, a "work" mod or train mod which does 2000 lines with tons of copy / paste HTML for 10 different ifs, that would hurt more my eyes. And... remember we should not talk about V3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudinski Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I agree, comparing lines of code to come to the valid assumption of the applications abilities renders the opinion rather nullified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Line counting on anything is pointless, across the board. Like stated, it proves nothing. My current game script, that has a fair amount of functionality, custom database, templating and auth classes, and quite a few pages (mods, if you must) -- sit's at around 4k lines. I could add a couple hundred lines to that (Which I do need to do) by dropping all { braces below the line of the condition/statement before. That means, for example:- 4k and 4.5k lines after updating the writing style -- nothing has changed in the code, but position of braces, but people would think 4.5k holds more, I would imagine. Not always the case. 1 page in my game is almost 1 thousand lines, how do you have that much functionality and features in that amount? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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