Moderation issue

[rulerofzu]

McCodes have a long way to recover their poor reputation and deleting/editing posts stating so only serves to prove the point. Good on them for doing something. However previous history only shows they do something badly and then run and hide.

Edited March 20, 2012 by rulerofzu
Created from a previous thread and some of my text is no longer relevant. Kinda odd place to start this thread from.

[Djkanna]

Oh dear! This thread has gone to ...

[Danny696]

Sorry I find that far from nicely explained. Yeah ok stand your ground but there is numerous reasons why that jquery is not a good idea but we can agree to differ.

SORRY BUT I BELIEVE THIS IS AN OPEN FORUM DO NOT DELETE CONTENT FROM MY POSTS WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.

To the second bit of this post, the owners, admins, mods, they can do what they like, thats what you signed up for, and agreed to, so deal with it.

[Djkanna]

To the second bit of this post, the owners, admins, mods, they can do what they like, thats what you signed up for, and agreed to, so deal with it.

I believe it was more of the fact the second part of his original post, before it was moved did not speak highly of MCCodes, so to have the owner of MCCodes delete the part that wasn't good for their 'image' is a little... You know.

[rulerofzu]

I believe it was more of the fact the second part of his original post, before it was moved did not speak highly of MCCodes, so to have the owner of MCCodes delete the part that wasn't good for their 'image' is a little... You know.

Exactly. Which has happened on more than one occasion and I have been officially warned about speaking out against the mccodes engine.

[Danny696]

Exactly. Which has happened on more than one occasion and I have been officially warned about speaking out against the mccodes engine.

Oh, my apologies, I though they just removed a post randomly :)

But yeh, on a serious note, I think as a forum, we should donate money to a 'pot' type thing, where we all pay a small amount, and buy one mccode licence v3, not like its going to be locked or anything.

[Dominion]

LOL, this is probably the main fucking reason this forum is dead. I just lurk on here every now again, but what is this ****? Be glad for some updates, not cry like little bitches. If you don't like the engine, don't comment on it. Everytime something even close to MCCodes is mentioed a fire breaks out and flames spread like wildfire. Just be willing to help each other out, give some constructive criticism and maybe a more friendly image will be given.

First off if the forum was “dead” you would not be posting. Less active does not mean dead.

Now as for mccodes, if you look those who have posted are customers running with active games or at the very least holding a license... It’s not so much “when they do something” it’s that the timing is always based around when a new product is coming out. Support should be continues.

Exactly. Which has happened on more than one occasion and I have been officially warned about speaking out against the mccodes engine.

Your account does not appear to have any warnings. As far as I know there is no rule aganst it, and if an mccodes staff member wants to correct me they may (since they own the site...). Until then we have a section for valid complaints against people.

If you went off topic (I didn’t read the original post) that’s a different story.

But yeh, on a serious note, I think as a forum, we should donate money to a 'pot' type thing, where we all pay a small amount, and buy one mccode licence v3, not like its going to be locked or anything.

And I would assume you could not pass the engine around. Why would everyone paying a little sum of money help?

[rulerofzu]

I didnt go off topic.

Part of my post was removed due to my comments about the updates and from my observation of the code it would appear that they have added code with little thought.

In one post now deleted I suggested that research be taken before buying and 6months testing be done before release of v3 due to their previous track record.

Which is true. You should do research first and v2.0.x and 2.5.x has always had bugs/exploits due to lack of testing.

I have taken the message sent from Coldblooded as a official warning as it stated this had been discussed between mwg staff.

[Octarine]

I have been banned, warned, scolded, had posts deleted etc etc etc.

And this surprises you ... how? :D

I don't remember your account actually being destroyed however .. unlike mine

[Djkanna]

[...]

It's a part of life - you can't please everybody, but when you say something that doesn't please a person with an edit or delete button - your voice is muted.

[...]

Where there is power, there shall be corruption of sanity (Me: 17th March 2012 :D)

Not everybody would do such a thing.

As for the warning RoZ.

The MWG mod team and myself personally almost had enough of your continuous negativity around the community.

I am unsure if I still am considered part of the "mod team" and if so, that's pretty much bollocks, not much if anything has been mentioned of you personally.

Also, on that note, Coldblooded, shouldn't you consult with the "mod team" before stating that they're all fed up of RoZ's "continuous negativity"?

Your negativity (generally) towards the MCCodes engine, is shared by many members, myself included.

Also this is a forum, your opinions are valid, and can be posted, no matter if we do or don't agree with them.

[Nickson]

I'm unsure what the actual thread content is going on about, but I could no longer refrain from posting here...

 

@RulerOfZu, There is no official warning, nor a consideration of one on your account. Nothing has been discussed between staff, so if coldblooded has sent you anything to date with the possibility of a warning, you are free to ignore it. Whatever he is saying is indeed bollocks as djkanna has already said. This is still a forum where one is supposed to be able to express his thoughts, albeit in a proper and constructive way. Feel free to contact me about this matter, just keep in mind that I can not read your pm.

[a_bertrand]

"Feel free to contact me about this matter, just keep in mind that I can not read your pm." ?? How can somebody contact you Nickson? Jokes asside:

Anyhow, I do strongly suggest everyone to cool down. ColdBlooded too.

RulerOfZu: I think you simply steeped in on the wrong day here, and some people have been a bit too picky. I'm sorry for it, and hope somebody will say something.

For McCodes past track: yes they are not really good, however I would suggest to see if they can correct themselves... That's all what I can say. But guys, I still have an hard time to understand why you bash them EVEN when they do actually what everyone was waiting for. Wasn't a patch release something the community was waiting? Yes it's late, but... still some people buy the engine. So for new comers it's good to have at least a patched one, no?

Of course I see as well the fact the patches and activities of CB and Dabs are increasing... and it seems it's just for the fact they will release a new engine. Well maybe they changed their way to act and want to be more active? Or maybe simply they have yet some free time and spend it on their hobby which is McCodes?

Overall I tend to see that you guys are easy on the complain, saying that this thing is bad (not talking about McCodes) or it's not the right way to do it, yet I hardly see any of those complainer trying to change both the mood of the board, being pro-active, and offering alternatives. You don't like McCodes? Fine, then why don't do something else? You find the skills of the board members are low? What did you do to help? Etc... So instead of being just plainly negative let's try to help each other a bit more. You are tired of "I NEED HELP" threads? Beside the fact I'm too, well you could simply skip them!

[Danny696]

Wasn't a patch release something the community was waiting? Yes it's late, but... still some people buy the engine. So for new comers it's good to have at least a patched one, no?

Well, we did want a patch, but one that actually worked, and one that doest cost us an extra $100 or whatever for something as bad as redux, yes paul, it was **** (again, whats with the stars huh!)

I think people actually have a right to moan about mccodes. Think about it.

6-7 years ago they release McCodes, charge $300 for it. Its insecure, badly coded, errors, and such.

6 years later, they buy MWG, badly patch mccodes, and again, oh and again.

They promise mods, promise bug-free code, neither of these came.

Then they pay someone to made something which has bugs in it, and things made with strange methods which make it harder for new developers, and CHARGE EXTRA for it, then proceed add bad patches.

Then, after a few months of us not hearing anything again, they come back and have McCodes V3 to announce. What a fucking suprise, they only ever come here when money is involved. Im guessing they want to try and change our opinion of them, but they posted two topics, one where they were so far up their own arse, they couldnt take advise/constructive criticism, to help improve the engine, which I'm guessing they will make the same mistakes on V3, the other to adverise V3, which will all know probably wont live up to the promise.

RANT OVER.

[Spudinski]

Well, this topic has drifted so far off course I might as well share my opinion as well.

Firstly, ColdBlooded should remember that this isn't HIS forum, it's MWGs. They agreed to it.

So they really don't have a say over the operations of it, nevertheless send a damn "Official Warning".

He should go stick that worthless piece of text up somewhere deep.

Secondly, people ranting on about how people(including me) are negative on here about MCCodes.

You guys should remember that most of us actually did try to help, and either they stole our idea for profit and deny it, or they sponge off of us to do certain tasks.

E.g.: Guess who suggested a bug tracker? Guess who suggested an online script to verify clients? Geesh, the list goes on and on.

I'm not saying I should get the credit for it, as I'm sure other people have mentioned it as well, but the priceless of it all is just a really dirty business.

Thirdly, to the "MWG mod team", or whatever you want to call yourselves.

I'd highly suggest you don't "discuss" people behind their backs, that's just plain fucked up.

I'm not singling out anyone though, as I know some of the staff is actually decent, but the rest is just plain childish gossiping over people.

Fourth, to Octraine: Are you back then?

I thought you said you packed your bags and moved on?

Anyway, I don't mind either way.

Fifth, to RulerofZu.

You have your opinions, which closely follow a lot of people on here.

I don't think it's fair that you are getting singled out specifically.

Sixth, to staff specifically.

Banning or deleting posts should be done democratically.

Just because one of you think the post is irrelevant or for any other assumption you may have made, does not mean WE agree.

And I don't think it's fair you blame it on US, when you have no idea what our connection is with the topic at hand.

You guys do not know everything, there are things WE are much better with than you as well, especially Danny who acts like such a smart ass.

I've never seen this hierarchy of moderation and knowledge anywhere else.

Normally moderators are people who are professionals in the field/area they moderate.

[Dominion]

Firstly, ColdBlooded should remember that this isn't HIS forum, it's MWGs. They agreed to it.

So they really don't have a say over the operations of it, nevertheless send a damn "Official Warning".

He should go stick that worthless piece of text up somewhere deep.

It is his forum, well his and dabs. Mccodes bought MakeWebGames some time ago, and have Administer status for both of the accounts. You may view the staff team @ http://makewebgames.io/showgroups.php

 

Thirdly, to the "MWG mod team", or whatever you want to call yourselves.

I'd highly suggest you don't "discuss" people behind their backs, that's just plain fucked up.

I'm not singling out anyone though, as I know some of the staff is actually decent, but the rest is just plain childish gossiping over people.

There was no discussion hence why some have reacted the way they have. For some reason Cb believed we were all “fed up” with certain attitudes, however it simply was not the case.

As for singling people out, feel free to do so in private to someone like Nickson. If you genuinely think there is a problem with the staff team it’s better to have it dealt with.

Sixth, to staff specifically.

Banning or deleting posts should be done democratically.

Just because one of you think the post is irrelevant or for any other assumption you may have made, does not mean WE agree.

That is not always possible, and to be honest I don’t believe I am on any site were its members vote on who to ban. Rules need to be clearer, and there is currently a new set of rules being ironed out. They should be public soon enough. In this case the problem was why it was done, not what action was taken. If we edited out, for example, an insult towards a member then there would probably be little reaction.

[a_bertrand]

ColdBlooded was the moderator which wasn't happy with the post. Nobody beside him was involved. AFTERWARD there has been some discussion in the private section. However as it's afterward it's too late.

For the moderation, as long as it's not purely garbage, full of bad words, spam or illegal, I personally tend to try the discussion. I know Nickson do even less removal than me. And Dom and Illusion I doubt you can blame them. Who remains? Dabs and CB? Well it's the first time I really see CB reacting so, so far I doubt you can be unhappy about being too strict. This thread did went well? No indeed. Wasn't the way I would have treated it.

On the "professional" field. What field are you after? Nickson is finishing his network / sysadmin / developer training, myself, for those which still do not know, I work as full time software developer / analyst for a gov research institute. Beside that nobody is a pro in the web game industry. Sorry.

[Spudinski]

@Dominion:

I've read your post.

But, if you remember correctly, they didn't want to operate it.

That responsibility fell to Alain and Nick.

 

ColdBlooded was the moderator which wasn't happy with the post. Nobody beside him was involved. AFTERWARD there has been some discussion in the private section. However as it's afterward it's too late.

For the moderation, as long as it's not purely garbage, full of bad words, spam or illegal, I personally tend to try the discussion. I know Nickson do even less removal than me. And Dom and Illusion I doubt you can blame them. Who remains? Dabs and CB? Well it's the first time I really see CB reacting so, so far I doubt you can be unhappy about being too strict. This thread did went well? No indeed. Wasn't the way I would have treated it.

On the "professional" field. What field are you after? Nickson is finishing his network / sysadmin / developer training, myself, for those which still do not know, I work as full time software developer / analyst for a gov research institute. Beside that nobody is a pro in the web game industry. Sorry.

Posts:

Sure spam and garbage is fine, but not deleting member content.

And by member content I mean a post that's well produced, no matter how insulting anyone may find it.

Professional:

I'll quote.

 

pro·fes·sion·al/prəˈfeSHənl/

[TABLE=class: ts]

[TR]

[TD]Adjective:[/TD]

[TD][TABLE=class: ts]

[TR]

[TD]Of, relating to, or connected with a profession.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: #ddd]

[TD=colspan: 2][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Noun:[/TD]

[TD][TABLE=class: ts]

[TR]

[TD]A person engaged or qualified in a profession.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Arriving at...

pro·fes·sion/prəˈfeSHən/

[TABLE=class: ts]

[TR]

[TD]Noun:[/TD]

[TD][TABLE=class: ts]

[TR]

[TD]

1. A paid occupation, esp. one that involves prolonged training and a formal qualification.
   
2. A body of people engaged in a particular profession.
   

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Nickson and yourself, I know are well educated enough to be able to grasp most of the aspects discussed on here.

But some of the rest, trying not to single out anyone, I doubt I can say the same for.

Mainly, I'd say moderators should be people who actively work within the field or have a well-rounded knowledge base with regards to the content that they are supposed to moderate.

I think we can all agree on that clarification.

RPGs/Webgames are a sub-field of development/programming, and also on the graphical side others.

To explain further, it's much like a Unix systems administrator working on Debian. Having the knowledge and being able to apprehend other things as well.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Spudinski

[a_bertrand]

I would say that as this forum is meant for hobby development and is NOT a support forum of a company product, I hardly see why we must have everybody pro in the field to be moderators. Actually anybody with some sense of the discussion should manage to know if something is spam, abuse or whatever else. Also, I hardly see how any of the moderators which in your opinion could be non-pro had anything to do with the current issue... and actually in any other. Also, I would say it's up to the admin and the owners to decide who is mod and maybe the current mods simply are choosen from a pool of active and quiet members. We don't need extremists nor people which comes or post once per year.

Finally, the rule remains, if you are unhappy, you may always try to propose a solution (instead of complaining).

[Spudinski]

I'm not just simply "complaining".

I'm discussing a relevant topic.

Moderators should be people who people can look up to and ask for help as well.

They shouldn't be shielded behind a brick wall, they are helpers, thus they should do so.

Take for instance a post I made some time back, about uncaught methods.

It doesn't receive any attention at all, not even a suggestion or probable solution.

Every moderator has access to delete that post, yet they aren't knowledgeable to assist.

This isn't right...

Same with PHP, I doubt many will be able to even work with ORM, or even know what the acronym is.

Does that make them inferior? No, but it does prove a point: they're moderating content they know jack about.

[a_bertrand]

Sorry moderators must not know everything or even be skilled. A moderator should just MODERATE which means, when things off topic, or bashing / flaming start, thread should be moderated. But it's not up to the moderators to answer every single question.

Also if I have no clue about one of your post why should I post something? Just to increase my post count? Doesn't seems right.

Now what have ORM to do with this site? Sure you could use an ORM for your game, but does that mean you MUST know them? No.

So I keep my idea that moderator must be trusted and known by the community, if they know all (which is impossible) it's better but that's not required. You don't agree with my point of view? Fine, complain to the owners and try to setup different rules for moderators. Till then accept the one we choose or show that they are abusing they power.

Keep in mind the issue here wasn't with moderators, it was with one of the owner of the site. Want to change him too? Maybe you should buy back the forums then.

[Spudinski]

Well then...

[Jordan Palmer]

I don't actually see where thread is going but I thought I'd share my own personal view.

Many people have so many bones to pick with MCCodes & There code, I for one have worked closey with them and there alright, they'rs times they pissed me right off but there okay guys, They've been late with the patch and I havent actually seen the code of the 'patch' nor have I spoken to anyone about it, I heard Paul Evans was supposed to be doing the recode of the MCV2 and thats all I've heard.

This is a support forum for RPG Gaming & Discussions, MCCodes is singled out because it's always been 90% of the forums posts due to people getting it free & has so much support, that being said its always lacked when it comes to MCCodes actually supporting there product and this is why it fustrates alot of website developers, Because we have to go round listening to story of hard working people being Hacked and such because they thought they'd brought a secure reliable engine.

At some point of other you've gotta give up caring and do you're own thing, We've all offered MCCodes support, Alot of people know some days I was working night and day getting games shut down & working with customers sorting there problems, I was never paid ''brilliant'' for this but I enjoyed helping, this is what this forum is lacking, people who enjoy helping each other, Everyone has something bad to say, No one wants to help anyone, If someone asks for help there automatically "lazy" or a "n00b".

As for the MSG to rulerofzu, Nickson has already covered it, All I can say to that is ColdBlooded would of woken up in the wrong mood and you got the high end of it, The more attention you attract the more they'll notice you.

"MWG isnt MCCodes" - this is actually very true really, MWG is a self run forum it has no owner, It has admins that do simply that run the forum, The overall owners are the members as without them there is no MWG. It works both ways.

@Spud - I disagree with your post, A moderator doesnt have to know anything, As long as the mod can do there job & work professionally when needed I see no problem

Take a look at this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum#User_groups

[rulerofzu]

This should have been buried doesnt really need any further involvement nice to have you back though Jordan.

[Nickson]

Locking... RoZ has a point there, a new thread can be opened when required.