[WTH] Game Developer

[Frosty]

Hi,

I am looking for a Game Developer for Drug District:

http://makewebgames.io/showthread.php/42418-DrugDistrict-The-ultimate-Drug-amp-War-MMORPG

We have decided to go with the MCCodes game engine as it would be less time consuming and

cheaper to go with than creating an entire game engine from scratch.

We are looking for someone who is able to do the following:

Secure and fix any bugs there are in mccodes currently.

Code a template into the game engine xhtml compliant.

Create Several Custom Modification within a suitable timeframe.

Update the look of several pages within the game (profile/userlist/ect...)

Make adjustments to the core engine if needed.

I am looking for someone who is able to do all of the following in a timely manor and at a fair price.

The deadline for this project will be the 31st of January and constant communication is expected.

Amounts Being Paid:

$5 - $15 For each page update depending on what needs to be done.

$15 - $40 For each custom modification depending on what needs to be done.

Above is a rough guide as to how much you can expect, payment will be through paypal (invoice required) and will be given once work is completed,

unfortunately we will not be able to pay in advance or a deposit regardless of experience or membership duration on this forum.

If anyone has any question please ask, only people who are interested in the work - no smart asses please.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Frosty

[HauntedDawg]

I would just like to point out, and in no way trying to start an argument.

However. The amount you want to pay is low.

$5 - $15 for each page that requires an update. This is a fair price if the project is as a hole. But what happens when the page requires a rewrite and not just little updates?

$15 - $40 for each custom modification. For this price, i expect i can resell the modifications? But let's look a serious note.

A junior PHP devleoper in the united states makes minimum of $20 dollars an hour. Your asking to only pay $40 for each custom modification. A custom modification can extend into days development.

Ill put it this simple.

I charged for a house module, that allows images, you can upgrade your house and even rent it out. Hire staff, yes in other words, a torn.com house clone. I charged $150, on condition i could resell it.

It took me roughly 9 hours to develop it.

Now i am not even a junior, and classify myself as a mid which earn minimum $40. While I should of charged $400 +- for the module, I cut that price by 3, as then i only require 3 sales to cover my losses.

Just a guideline. Nothing serious & no arguments.

[Frosty]

HauntedDawg i am happy that you consider your time to be valued at a minimum of $40 an hour and i am sure a lot of other people also consider their time to be worth that and some expect even more, I personally value an hour of my time at around $100 and i wont get out of bed for less than $500. But of course the world is not perfect and we are in a recession in which a lot of people do not have jobs because their employers could not sustain their $20 or $40 an hour jobs. I am making an offer, if someone is interested please contact me and like i mentioned in the first post those prices are a rough guide, i myself have basic php knowledge so i do know how long things take and how much should be paid for them i am not unreasonable as a few people would tell you that i have dealt with and i am always open to negotiation within reason but i myself am on a tight budget and i need to fulfill all aspects of the project within that budget therefore that is why i mentioned those prices as the custom mods i have in mind don't take longer than lets say 3 - 4 hours to create at most and for those mods i would pay a little more depending on the agreement with the coder.

I know you say your not trying to start an argument but i do not appreciate you trying to influence the prices i am willing to pay, of course someone who receives money wants as much as possible and the person giving the money wants to give the least amount possible but eventually we both meet in the middle and if i could hire someone for $1 an hour i would do it in a heart beat because they would be undercutting everyone else and it would benefit me, and to be frank that's all i care about, the benefit to me and my project, sorry if this sounded self-centered but anyone who has an ongoing project sees things this way.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Frosty

[HauntedDawg]

I classify myself as a mid, not saying i value myself at a minimum of $40 an hour.

Hell, i won't work for less than $100 either.

To be honest, i think you are taking my response out as an argument, where i really did not intend it to be.

This is actually to help yourself.

Let me put it like this.

You hire someone at the cost of $1 per hour. And at first it seems like a great deal. But take that further down the line.

Is your code going to be optimized?

Is your code going to be secure?

Is your code going to be neat?

Is your code going to be readable?

Will your code handle X amount of users?

While, the $1 dollar per hour person might be able to write readable code. It might not be neat, where as, it might also not be optimized nor secured.

You've now hired this developer and his done his work for lets say $20 dollars for 3 mods you want. Later down the line, your game gets hacked and you find the issue to be with one of their mods. Now, additionally, you could go fix these issues yourself as you said you know basic php knowledge, then again. You only know basic, so what tells you, that its secure & optimized?

Now, because you can't figure out the hack, you go back to the developer who done the mod. He can't figure out (if that may be the case, and yes i have seen this as a case), you will need to additionally go and hire another developer for lets say $20 to fix this issue/hack.

My final point of the story, the more expensive the developer. The better in the long run.

I'll let you read this article: http://www.customsoftwarebypreston.com/php-costs-and-hourly-rates

then come back with your response please.

But i will quote this for people who are lazy

 

PHP Rates typically average between $30 and $120 an hour. The lower side of the range is where you will find most novice developers as they usually work exclusively on the simplest of all applications. Just keep in mind that if the application is not built properly future modifications may become a major and costly headache … or could even become impossible without starting over from scratch.

The wisest approach would be to select the most experienced developer you can afford. It almost seems counterintuitive, but developers at $70 per hour are usually more affordable (in the long run) than someone at $30 an hour. Would you want to use an auto mechanic that only charged $30 an hour? Probably (and wisely) not!

Have a good day further, and good luck with your project :)

[Frosty]

You do make a fair point, but the "average" is not $30 - $120 an hour, it depends on the work that needs to be done and the person doing the work. For example i hired someone to create me a complete polling system which cost me $100 now i can accurately assume it took at least 8 - 10 hours to create in addition to 2 - 3 hours me nitpicking to make sure it is exactly what i wanted and this was created by a fairly advanced programmer, judging by your standards that polling script should of cost me at least $300 to $1560, yes a it does very between a good and a brilliant programmer but code still has to be written and there is a limit as to how fast people can type up the code.

I'm not saying your wrong I'm just saying that the price is never fixed and that someone might actually want a small job that they get paid $40 for and someone else might not.

My question to you is who would charge more and why? A programmer from the UK or a programmer from India both who have the exact same skills and motivation.

I personally am looking for a bargain and if anyone has some spare time in which they can complete the work i require it's extra money to them as i am doing this per project basis and this entire project would consist of multiple smaller projects.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Frosty

[HauntedDawg]

While that polling system cost you $100.00, that developer can go sell it 3 more times to cover his losses, hence why we "developers" (well i do in this case) don't actually charge the full amount unless it is fully custom to your own game. If its the case that the polling system was unique to your game. Shame on the developer.

Yes, some people might want a small job, but your not offering a small job here. Your offering multiple coupled small jobs.

Anyways, it looks like it is soon going into an argument so, this is my last post on this thread.

As to your question regarding the developer from UK & India.

It's kind an easy answer. Indian's will do it for cheaper, and there are many reasons for that:

Economy in India is way worse than UK, so what you actually pay a person from India, is actually there "average", while to the developer in the UK its petty cash.

Ill put it like this.

A South African PHP developer earns on average 50 Rands per hour. That's a flipping measly $5 dollars an hour. Now, these South Africans don't know what they are worth overseas, so they will accept anything above 50 rand an hour. Where as people, like myself. Know what I am worth in this country and know what I am worth in other popular countries.

Now, if a South African company came to me and said they wanted a simple contact form built in CakePHP with some little fancy stuff here & there. I'd charge plus minus 600 rand, because its simple. Thats $40+- dollars. Would I build the same script look & feel for $40 dollars? No, never.

I agree with you that at time's we all love bargains. And 2 year's ago, i would of also gone for the cheaper designer. But you know what? I learned my mistake, in the long run, cheaper is more expensive. So all in all, don't go for the cheapest, but as that article says. The best "YOU" can afford.

Even when I was a beginner at programming. All my modules sold for around $15, which made on average 20 sales. Covered some of my losses, but i still made what i wanted to achieve along with learning. Custom mods also, was no cheaper than $80 at that time (4 - 5 years ago).

Don't take this as an argument, but rather as some advice from a freelance developer :)

Hell, i might even take the 15 CAD offer for the framework page to be rewritten, just because i need $10 dollars in my paypal account :P, so yes. There is people wanting small jobs.

Good luck with your project.

[Frosty]

The polling script was fully custom and dedicated to me, what i am saying is that the $30- $120 is completely wrong as i have in the past hired professionals overseas who would work for $5 an hour and even here on makewebgames in the past coders have created fully custom mods for $30 - $40. And like you said if someone needed the $20 or $40 to make ends meet they would take up a job like this, although don't get me wrong i do understand what your trying to say.

[Dave]

The polling script was fully custom and dedicated to me, what i am saying is that the $30- $120 is completely wrong as i have in the past hired professionals overseas who would work for $5 an hour and even here on makewebgames in the past coders have created fully custom mods for $30 - $40. And like you said if someone needed the $20 or $40 to make ends meet they would take up a job like this, although don't get me wrong i do understand what your trying to say.

The polling system was created by a member of my team who has very limited experience in PHP, it was no where near a decent piece of work thus the price tag being so low. He wanted a bit of money for the weekend and had a week of so I threw it at him.

If anyone more professional was to of completed it, it would of certainly costed a fair amount more. Somewhere around the $400 mark to have it created properly, in a decent manner instead of the flat file, bog standard way it was.

I've gotta be with Haunted on this one about how low your budgets are, as I was on the original project and I soon realised how badly I under quoted the entire thing. If you want a decent coder who won't just make your game full of more holes then swiss cheese and also mess you around you're going to struggle. I'm earning more then you're offering as an apprentice web developer, and that's saying something compared to UK apprenticeship rates.

[Djkanna]

PM specifically what you want doing, including page updates, and custom modifications, so that I can get a better feel for what your asking for and offering.

Thanks.

[Frosty]

The polling system was created by a member of my team who has very limited experience in PHP, it was no where near a decent piece of work thus the price tag being so low. He wanted a bit of money for the weekend and had a week of so I threw it at him.

If anyone more professional was to of completed it, it would of certainly costed a fair amount more. Somewhere around the $400 mark to have it created properly, in a decent manner instead of the flat file, bog standard way it was.

I've gotta be with Haunted on this one about how low your budgets are, as I was on the original project and I soon realised how badly I under quoted the entire thing. If you want a decent coder who won't just make your game full of more holes then swiss cheese and also mess you around you're going to struggle. I'm earning more then you're offering as an apprentice web developer, and that's saying something compared to UK apprenticeship rates.

Regardless, i got exactly what i wanted coded with the exact features i wanted for $100 instead of $400, that is my point and the script is good and not heavy on server resources.

[Razor42]

I have done quite abit of work on Mccodes and I am confident I can do work of a decent quality making almost everything you shall need. Also I am probably going to be one of the cheapest coders around here.

[skooda]

Razor is pretty good and over the months his skills got better. He also have free mods out. Check them out just to see a little taste of his work.