game engine vs framework?

[flixbeat]

what are the major differences between an engine and a framework? i read an answer over stackexchange yesterday, it tells that framework is similar to engine and they are just terminologies and doesn't have any bearings. From what I see on this forum's perspective, it seems like a game engine is somehow like a game maker? (RPG Maker for instance). What are the features needed for a codebase to be considered as an engine over a framework? thanks :)

[Coly010]

From the way I see it.

A game engine provides a game, with content pre installed. It's like an out of the box website. It focuses on the content and little to no coding knowledge is needed.

A framework provides tools and to make a website. You can use the features provided within the framework to make the website itself. It focuses more on the actual code which still has to be written by a developer.

One focuses more on letting you build and provide content easier whilst the other makes the developing side easier.

[flixbeat]

thanks for your inputs coly :)

[Coly010]

[MENTION=71662]CaptainQuack[/MENTION] your thoughts on this then if I'm wrong?

[IllegalPigeon]

From the way I see it.

A game engine provides a game, with content pre installed. It's like an out of the box website. It focuses on the content and little to no coding knowledge is needed.

A framework provides tools and to make a website. You can use the features provided within the framework to make the website itself. It focuses more on the actual code which still has to be written by a developer.

One focuses more on letting you build and provide content easier whilst the other makes the developing side easier.

[MENTION=71662]CaptainQuack[/MENTION] your thoughts on this then if I'm wrong?

He's probably going to comment on the fact that you've misconstrued what an engine is. For this question to be correct, for a start, you'd need to compare an engine against a framework, or a game engine against a game framework. McCodes and other 'engines' come pre-loaded and provide a GUI for the uninitiated to change content, yes, but that's not what an engine is.

A framework is a structure that your application will bind to or extend.

An engine is usually something you instruct via an API, where the engine is the application and the API is an extension of it.

The term "engine" does not suggest the content is pre-installed or an out of the box website, nor does it imply you need little to no coding knowledge for one. If McCodes was called "McCodes CMS" then yeah, you'd almost be right.

For OP; The difference between the McCodes engine and a Framework is what Coly said. The difference between and engine and a framework is what you read on Stackoverflow. Engines and frameworks are almost one and the same, they still both utilise libraries and structures, just differently.

[flixbeat]

Thanks for your inputs, it was helpful and i agree with the statement:

 

The difference between and engine and a framework is what you read on Stackoverflow. Engines and frameworks are almost one and the same, they still both utilise libraries and structures, just differently.

and i wanted to share the article that i just read about 'how game engines work', it's focused on 2d and 3d game engines however the concept is still here..http://www.giantbomb.com/profile/michaelenger/blog/game-engines-how-do-they-work/101529/

[Dominion]

This is one of those questions either you don't care about or have a strong opinion on. I don't know why that is. I have found the answer you will get depends on the context and the community you're asking.

In answer to your question, in general(and my opinion), game engines have more then Frameworks. Maybe one is more suited to a shooter based game, and will push the content that way well another is good for racing games. (An example taken from the article you just shared.) That's not to say that it'll be already made to be that style of game, but the libraries included at the start will be more in line with what you will need. Frameworks just give you the bones. The stuff you need to build regardless of what type of game you want to create.

On MakeWebGames an example would be mccodes pushes you towards a crime style game well Ezrpg just gives you the basics such as stats and a few addons. Nothing pushing you towards one type of game.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Dominion

[IllegalPigeon]

This is one of those questions either you don't care about or have a strong opinion on. I don't know why that is. I have found the answer you will get depends on the context and the community you're asking.

In answer to your question, in general(and my opinion), game engines have more then Frameworks. Maybe one is more suited to a shooter based game, and will push the content that way well another is good for racing games. (An example taken from the article you just shared.) That's not to say that it'll be already made to be that style of game, but the libraries included at the start will be more in line with what you will need. Frameworks just give you the bones. The stuff you need to build regardless of what type of game you want to create.

On MakeWebGames an example would be mccodes pushes you towards a crime style game well Ezrpg just gives you the basics such as stats and a few addons. Nothing pushing you towards one type of game.

It's not really one of those things, though.

There's the right answer, which actually defines an engine and a framework, as previously stated. Then there are wrong answers, usually people's opinions. It's not like a debate on how to pronounce "tomato", engines and frameworks have their differences and have their purposes. There's no two ways about it. Not caring about it or having a strong opinion is neither here nor there, as there is only one right answer.

[Dominion]

It's not really one of those things, though.

There's the right answer, which actually defines an engine and a framework, as previously stated. Then there are wrong answers, usually people's opinions. It's not like a debate on how to pronounce "tomato", engines and frameworks have their differences and have their purposes. There's no two ways about it. Not caring about it or having a strong opinion is neither here nor there, as there is only one right answer.

If you want to know the specific definitions Google software engine, and software framework. Within the context of games the term is disputed because... well it is. Correctly or not the web is full of people that use the term without any difference.

If you asked Google what a game engine is you'll find links that call all game engines "software frameworks used for creating games". So does that mean game frameworks (specifically there to create games) don't actually exist or are in fact engines?

Knowing what people call things online is important. If for no other reason then to understand what they mean in specific context. Within the gaming community people don't usually differentiate beyond size and functions given when using the terms. Sometimes not even then. An engine and a framework to someone who isn't in just the game community will mean something different.

[IllegalPigeon]

If you want to know the specific definitions Google software engine, and software framework. Within the context of games the term is disputed because... well it is. Correctly or not the web is full of people that use the term without any difference.

If you asked Google what a game engine is you'll find links that call all game engines "software frameworks used for creating games". So does that mean game frameworks (specifically there to create games) don't actually exist or are in fact engines?

Knowing what people call things online is important. If for no other reason then to understand what they mean in specific context. Within the gaming community people don't usually differentiate beyond size and functions given when using the terms. Sometimes not even then. An engine and a framework to someone who isn't in just the game community will mean something different.

See, again, you're wrong. There are a few concerning things here; 1) You're Googling something and taking the first answer you find as correct. 2) I Google'd these terms and only found 2 forums where there was a discussion, not a dispute. Some people getting the idea of a framework and engine correct, and others getting it incorrect.

I think your downfall is that you rely heavily on Google to answer your questions. Might I add that your quote is an excerpt from Wikipedia, Wikipedia is not fact. You're messing up because McCodes refers to itself as an engine and does so incorrectly. I could refer to it as McCodes CMS, if other people started doing it and then disputing if McCodes was an engine or a CMS, would you make the same arguments because now it's an opinion based dispute? No. (At least I hope not).

Someone NOT in the gaming community but capable of understanding the differences between a framework and an engine, as I outlined above, should come here and say "Hey, look, McCodes is an engine. I can modify that with my own code using the API" and then be left without a paddle because McCodes is not an engine. I could code an application and call it "Pigeon Framework", which could consist of a database class and some static files, it doesn't make it a framework even if loads of people started using it and their opinions were "Pigeon Framework is a Framework".

As previously mentioned, engines and frameworks are one and the same, just utilising technologies differently. A game framework would consist of you extending the framework. A game engine would consist of you working with the applications API. It's as simple as that. The definition of an engine or framework does not change because of your opinion, the definition is there for a reason. Nor does it change because you've stuck something in front of the name, like "game engine" or "pigeon engine".

[Dominion]

See, again, you're wrong. There are a few concerning things here; 1) You're Googling something and taking the first answer you find as correct. 2) I Google'd these terms and only found 2 forums where there was a discussion, not a dispute. Some people getting the idea of a framework and engine correct, and others getting it incorrect.

I think your downfall is that you rely heavily on Google to answer your questions. Might I add that your quote is an excerpt from Wikipedia, Wikipedia is not fact. You're messing up because McCodes refers to itself as an engine and does so incorrectly. I could refer to it as McCodes CMS, if other people started doing it and then disputing if McCodes was an engine or a CMS, would you make the same arguments because now it's an opinion based dispute? No. (At least I hope not).

Someone NOT in the gaming community but capable of understanding the differences between a framework and an engine, as I outlined above, should come here and say "Hey, look, McCodes is an engine. I can modify that with my own code using the API" and then be left without a paddle because McCodes is not an engine. I could code an application and call it "Pigeon Framework", which could consist of a database class and some static files, it doesn't make it a framework even if loads of people started using it and their opinions were "Pigeon Framework is a Framework".

As previously mentioned, engines and frameworks are one and the same, just utilising technologies differently. A game framework would consist of you extending the framework. A game engine would consist of you working with the applications API. It's as simple as that. The definition of an engine or framework does not change because of your opinion, the definition is there for a reason. Nor does it change because you've stuck something in front of the name, like "game engine" or "pigeon engine".

I only google'ed (with I'm feeling lucky) "Define game engine" to prove my point, and it's one you just agreed with, people take the first answer they see. I didn't actually suggest it was right, but used it to ask a rhetorical question. My point stands what you see online when reading articles might not be what you are suggesting. As for debates I have never been in a heated one about this either most people don't care enough.

My points simple. Most people see a Framework as bare, an engine point towards a specific type of game with a lot more flesh, and I explained a little beyond that. In theory the engine would take less work then a framework to finish a product off. It's from my experience of how people use the terms.

You're saying the main difference is you using the applications api, and a framework being extended? I'd be interested in you linking an example of a game engine and game framework.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Dominion