Ravan Script

[badbull]

Being one of the people scammed by Ravan scripts, i now find myself in the position where i have to obtain legal advice to see where i stand. As all of you know, a lot of time goes into setting a game up, its not just a matter of uploading it to a server and away you go. I've spent countless hours working on a script that it now seems im going to have to scrap or pay even more money to use, that decision will be made after ive sought legal advice and weighed all the options.

ColdBlooded and Dabomstew could be suing under the premise of loss of potential earnings (they would actually have more chance of success if they filed their suit this way), and that way, truly punish the people who sold their code illegally (im not arguing that point), but instead, those of us that have suffered by Ravans deception are being made to suffer (there are enough precedents in copyright law for Ravan to walk away from this, without it costing them a cent).

Its time to see if ColdBlooded and Dabomstew are serious about shutting down Ravan. If they are, they will pass on any relevant information about Ravan to those of us that were scammed so we can take our own legal action. There is a lot more to this than just the $15 paid for the script, there is time spent on making adjustments and loss of potential earnings due to that time being wasted.

[iSOS]

I for one favour this idea...

[Dominion]

the thing is if they do pass on info to everyone and then fail (as you said a chance ravan can walk away free) people will no longer see mccodes as any kind of "force" and thats how they want to be seen you use our code you pay for it you don't then we take you down i 100% agree that they need to pass on info about whats going on i would also like the owner of ravan named (i assume his account on mwg is locked?) so there is no way anyone can buy off him again.

 

mccodes is trying and from what i know are putting a lot of time and work into taking them down however it can't be easy dealing with a host who does not talk to them and ravan who think changing a line in a mod makes it theres. as for the money thing i feel ravan should have to pay $300 per copy they sold and anyone scammed by ravan should get a free copy of mc v2 however i do also know people went to buy ravan script the day they found out that mccodes were starting to act (or saying they were) and taking down sites what should we do to the many who did that?

[badbull]

Dominion, i fully agree that CB and DB should be fully reimbursed for the time and effort it took to make MCC originally. And yes, personally i agree, Ravan should be made to pay $300 per illegal copy sold.

As for the webhost not being willing to talk to them, they wont have any choice when the matter is before the court. I like your idea for those of us that were scammed, receiving a free license, but unfortunately i doubt that will happen.

[SlanderDesign]

I also fell victim to the Ravan Script fraud, I do not want to seek legal advise as I see MCC taking it's own action against Ravan Script.

What I would like is some sort of support from MCC.

You should all know by now that Ravan Script will not work without their site been online.

Thus we have all been shut down by MCC's action.

We have all lost a great deal in time and money.

My idea of a great fix is that anyone that paid for Ravan Script show MCC the payment id to them in paypal. (I cant seem to find my licence file for Ravan Script), MCC then give the ravan victims a FREE Mcc V1 licence.

Regards Linton.

[Djkanna]

You should all see some form of support because of Ravans actions this I agree with.

In a couple of weeks there should be a place where you can read about what you can do and the options you can take within the MCCodes franchise (yes I know I called it a franchise as if it was KFC) which I can only assume will contain some form of legal advice within.

I cannot help nor say anything more than I already have (mainly because I'm clueless).

@SlanderDesign: As good as the free V1 licence sounds I cannot see that happening especially if MCCodes has no idea who is and who isn't a customer of Ravan so that could cause a stir with every Tom Dick and Harry wanting a V1 license.

After all this is done I hope we can all get back to doing what we love and that's making games, at the moment it's a lot of talk about Ravan a lot of legal issues popping up which really needs to be sorted but at the same time doesn't provide a fun community to be involved with.(just ones opinions)

BadBull I wish you luck with your game and I genuinely hope you get this sorted.

Djkanna

[badbull]

SlanderDesign (and any other member caught up in this scam), i think for Ravan to be truly punished for what they did wrong, they should face multiple legal cases, or maybe even a group action lawsuit (although i dont know how this would be possible, as we are spread around the globe).

Not only would this hamper Ravans efforts, it would also show the gaming community, that we are willing to stand behind CB and DB, that we dont want to use stolen software, that we are wanting to run legitimate businesses. This would do more to show the gaming community that MCC is a force, than any other action, as it isnt just the creators of the code wiling to fight.

Djkanna, i agree, this has definitely taken the fun out of things. In my opinion this has started the decline of what seemed to be a great community (thankfully everyone that has posted in this post has been constructive, unlike other posts ive read in the last few days), i really hope im wrong, i hope the community can grow from this and become stronger.

Also, thanx for wishing me luck :thumbsup:

[Zero-Affect]

Nein

[badbull]

CrimGame, im sure yourself and a few others have made money from securing other peoples sites, i have a message in my inbox from you dated June 9th offering a 10% discount on your services at securing. So i think you have probably made more money than you spent on the script, therefore you have been more than reimbursed.

Yes the price they ask is steep and yes a lot more security is needed, im not denying either of those facts. But yet you are still here, you still work on mods (i assume) and securing other peoples sites.

As to Ravan editing the script, they dont really seem to have made many changes from what ive seen (granted, i am a noob, so i could be missing the finer points).

But this post was started for constructive feedback, not to bash CB and DB.

Congratulations on making your own script (with help), but lets face it, there's a lot of us that arent anywhere near that level.

As for how much we owe CB and DB, i suppose thats relative.

For someone like myself, their code has helped me learn the basics, its given me a chance to learn something new, and im of the opinion that knowledge is very important. So regardless of whether i end up buying a license or scrapping the script, i owe them quite a lot.

For someone like yourself, you might want to think how much you have made securing other peoples sites, coz lets be honest, thats how much you have gained.

[Zero-Affect]

Nein

[badbull]

Mate, chill out, im not saying you've done anything wrong and if you got that impression, you really need to reread my post.

Please go back and read this post properly from the beginning, dont just skim through it, read it. After you have read it properly, tell me where i say you or anyone else that has made money from securing sites have done the wrong thing.

I never said me gaining knowledge was wrong, and i never said you making money was wrong (to be perfectly honest, i applaud all of you for making money and helping people at the same time, you saw a legitimate business opportunity). The only ones i have said have done the wrong thing are Ravan, and thankfully noone has tried to dispute the fact Ravan did the wrong thing.

As to how much support MCC gives, i wouldnt know, so i wont make any assumptions about that. I suppose im one of the lucky ones, i never needed support from Ravan either.

[Zero-Affect]

Nein

[badbull]

Like i said, i dont know what MCC support is like, so i obviously didnt know they had provided none for the last 2 years or so.

One little tip, if people think you are angry, its because you come across as angry (no offence meant mate, but thats how you came across).

[Zero-Affect]

Ah i do apologise for that im actually not a angry person your the first to say i come across angry when i post... (not entirely the first but the first for awhile).

[badbull]

lol, i know im not the first to have told u :D (i may not post much, but i have read most of the posts on here), its all good.

[a_bertrand]

Not true CrimGame, I do remember very well our first "cool" discussions on this board, and you was more than upset against me ;)

Even if I understand RavenScript buyers for their time lost invested on their game as well as CrimGame for the lack of support of the McCode guys, I don't agree with any of you.

RavenScript buyers: have have been scammed, and yes that's unfortunate, but I don't see why McCode owners should do much for you, beside maybe offering a reduction for the price, it would simply unfair to ask them something. They are the first one to have lost money. If your game is so advanced you have two solutions: either go with the lite version (which is free) or buy the license which you need.

If you invested so much time on the code, I don't know how much of the McCode remains on your side but maybe not that much, and the little bit remaining could be covered by the lite maybe. Or, if you started to gain money, 200$ for the full script should be not that hard to find. That's my own opinion.

Maybe Dab and Cold Blooded could actually make a step in your direction and discuss it on a cases by cases.

For CrimGame, which is always complaining about the bad quality of code and security, he's the first one to have working with this code, and also a well known guy which actually gained from the fact the script wasn't perfect. I agree that some support should have been done, but this is not mandatory, at least in my opinion. So, you buy something, and at the end you say you don't like it, most of the time you can't give it back. Specially about softwares.

[Zero-Affect]

Yeah i do gain from MCC's lack of security i do admit it's been a eye opener for me and yeah i can be a little over opinionated at times. MCC didn't give support but i do agree that Raven users are victims but they still shouldn't be given support by MCC unless they buy a copy of MCv2.

Alain don't make me shoot you... :evil:

[badbull]

As for it being unfair on CB and DB, in business there is a thing called goodwill, its what keeps customers happy and coming back. By showing that goodwill they would strengthen any legal action they take against Ravan, and have more chance of receiving proper restitution through the courts. By showing that goodwill, they would prove they are entitled to the $300 per illegal copy sold, as they have righted the wrong caused by the people at fault, Ravan. As it stands without that goodwill, they will be lucky to recoup the $15 made by Ravan per illegal copy sold.

That my friend is basic law that i learnt 20 years ago in high school, and have seen in practice throughout my working life. Im no lawyer and dont pretend to be, but i am well versed in law because of some of the jobs ive held over the last 20 years.

I am actually looking right now to see if i can adapt the lite version to fit in with my game, as most pages have been changed to suit my needs.

As for your statement that no support needed to be provided, sorry to say, but you are wrong (in both a legal and moral sense). If a product can be proven to be faulty or defective (and all the security holes would class as a defect), support or refunds should be provided.

Heres a few examples:

1. Microsoft provide that support in with their security updates and patches.

2. Sony replace a defective item.

3. Shops refund your money if a product bought in their store is broken/damaged.

I can name more if you'd like, but that should prove my point (and i think thats the point CrimGame is tryin to make when he complains).

This isnt a matter of not liking the software, far from it. This is a matter of the right thing being done.

[SlanderDesign]

Everyone here has fair points but, if MCC do take Ravan to court then MCC will be given a hell of a lot of money...(MATHS: Ravan sold around 400 copies,

400 * $15 = $6000. instead of the Mc Code Price ($80000) .)

So in court the payout should be around 80k.

This would be enough to GIVE Ravan victims the money back OR GIVE them a free V1 licence.

Yes I sound like it's all MCC's fault, it's not. But they have made it so our games no longer work.

Coursing loss of earnings.

Anyway kinda sick of ranting.

Regards Linton ;)

[badbull]

From a purely legal standpoint, the way things stand, they would only get the $6000 at a maximum (at 400 copies sold) if they were to get anything. As Ravan can counter, quite easily, that most of those 400 wouldnt have paid $300 to MCC due to the excessive price, with so many scripts being available under that price (I myself have another script i could be working with, that only cost $150).

As for them giving a V1 license, thats as unlikely as giving us a V2 license, as they know we would all just convert our files to V2 anyway, its not hard.

[DougK]

Personally, I do not think MCC is obligated to give anything to the people that were scammed by Ravan, either morally or legally.

That being said, there is something to be said about working with those that fell victim to this scammer, instead of telling them "Tough Luck"

In a certain sense, anyone that bought from this guy is a guilty party along with Ravan. MCC would be within their rights to expect some degree of compensation from anyone using their code, even if they got it through some illegal channel. I know some software out there does do this, by making the recipient of illegal copies pay for a legal license, sometimes at a cost greater than retail.

If MCC offers some kind of discount for a legal license, then they are being generous. You can always pursue legal action against Ravan as well.

Keep in mind that MCC is not to blame just because them pursuing their legal rights is harmful to you. The guilty party here is the guy who stole from MCC and all the people he ripped off.

[Dominion]

Personally, I do not think MCC is obligated to give anything to the people that were scammed by Ravan, either morally or legally.

on the legal side i agree they do not need to give anything over to the "scammed" people however morally i think you are wrong there are posts that go back to well before i was on this forum saying about ravan script and mccodes (if they gave the support here the should have) could have acted years ago the fact they never did allowed more to find ravans site and more to pay for there "engine"

[badbull]

@DougK This post was first started to give MCC owners the chance to show they were willing to work with us that had been scammed, rather than against us. Yet they still havent provided any of the details about Ravan, so those of us wishing to do so, can take our own legal action, in either private mail or in this forum.

I have an appointment with a solicitor for later this week, and i will be seeing where i stand on a few different legal fronts regarding this debacle.

As to what MCC owners should do morally and/or legally, the way they react will be what determines their payout in a court. By taking the hardline stance they are now, they will be lucky to get the $6000 (at 400 illegal copies sold at $15), no court will ever believe that all 400 (if thats an accurate figure) of us scammed would have paid $300 for the script. The only way they could get $300 per illegal copy sold, would be to license every illegal copy, and we all know that wont happen.

Courts make their legal rulings based on points of law, but financial payouts are based on a mix of legal compensation and what is morally acceptable in the given situation. Noone is denying Ravan did the wrong thing, but the MCC owners moral stance will play the largest factor in determining their payout.

[DougK]

Do you not have the paypal details from when you bought?

You should be able to get whatever information you need to pursue legal action through them. You should also be able to go through the registrar, even if the domain was registered privately. (Which I see it is) Private registration is not intended to prevent legal action against the registrant, but to keep your name off of publicly searchable records.

As for MCC posting information.....chances are they have been advised not to by their own legal counsel. There are a number of ways them posting any information can come back and bite them in the ass. I wouldn't expect MCC to post up anything until after their day in court is over, if at all. Keep in mind, they were able to track Ravan down, there is no reason you can't do the same.

[Lilith]

Rather than all this free and that free, etc etc, I would find it nice if Damstew and Coldblooded gave each of us that were scammed and provided them with paypal transactions after purchasing the full version, the opportunity to participate in a class action lawsuit for lost time, effort, uptime, ect. I essentially have paid the $100 for v2 (part to raven, part to Mcc) and therefore should not be entitled to anything free from MCC. However, I should be allowed to participate in a class action lawsuit to recover lost earnings for down time on my game, etc etc etc. That should come out of Raven's pocket, not MCC. If MCC really wanted to show that they will lay claim to their creation, they would head this venture or provide contact information so that we may do it without them in addition to what MCC has lost. This way, everyone would be entitled to what they put the time effort and work into.

IMO on what MCC will get from raven : $15 for each person that came forward and supplied paypal information AND bought the code with the discount. I don't see how they can legally be entitled to recover anything for their customers losses, and its a pretty solid case that they lost $15 for each sold code as described above.