When is it ok to lie?

[seanybob]

This board looks like it can use some spice...

 

When is a lie ok?

 

Should you always tell the truth?

I'd like to hear different people's opinions on this. Then I'll post my own ;)

[YoungGold]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

Good question. I was watching "Scrubs" last night and it was about lying and telling the truth.

I feel you should always tell the truth BUT if say you wanted to stop someone from being scared or worried you should lie - like say if you were on a plane and there was someone there that was really scared of flying. What would you say to her? You wouldn't say "Don't worry, you'll be fine but there is a chance we might crash."

You would just say "Don't worry, it will be fine and nothing will happen," to try and make them feel more relaxed and not worry.

That's what i think anyway.

*Editted by Seanybob for spelling. Let's try and use correct grammar, punctuation, and spelling for clarity of thoughts in the debate section. Thanks.

[seanybob]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

if say you wanted to stop someone from being scared or worried you should lie

I'm on an airplane, sitting in the seat closest to the cockpit. The people around me are all asleep. All of a sudden, I notice two terrorists hop up, and rush into the cockpit. They take over the plane, and I'm the only one who noticed...

I can either lie to anyone who wondered what the sound was, and keep them from being scared or worried, saying something like "Don't worry, it will be fine, nothing happened"

OR I can tell all the other passengers, letting them be scared and worried, but also giving us a chance to fight to get the plane back.

 

I feel you should always tell the truth

Regardless of where I agree or disagree... I would ask you this: What is a man's motive for always telling the truth? You can gain material gains such as money a lot easier by lying; why should a man tell the truth?

[YoungGold]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Regardless of where I agree or disagree... I would ask you this: What is a man's motive for always telling the truth? You can gain material gains such as money a lot easier by lying; why should a man tell the truth?

a man should tell the truth in order to convince someone that you are trustworthy or i could end up in you losing a buisness deal for not be trustworthy and not telling the truth.

[hamster01]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

Good debate.

It really depends on what you are lying about.

There is an old saying; "You lie to protect the people you care most about".

That is true, but not really like younggold explained.

Say I'm on a date, I really do not like the person i'm with, I don't want to be rude, so i'll lie and tell them I need to go.

Say Like the tsunami, Someone comes back from a holiday, they didn't hear that someone they knew died with it, What are you going to do?

You could lie and say nothing, but then again, it would be more hurtfull when they do eventually find out.

[YoungGold]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Good debate.

It really depends on what you are lying about.

There is an old saying; "You lie to protect the people you care most about".

That is true, but not really like younggold explained.

Say I'm on a date, I really do not like the person i'm with, I don't want to be rude, so i'll lie and tell them I need to go.

Say Like the tsunami, Someone comes back from a holiday, they didn't hear that someone they knew died with it, What are you going to do?

You could lie and say nothing, but then again, it would be more hurtfull when they do eventually find out.

well none of my posts really make sense, i jsut explain it how i understand it and thats good enough for me.....lol deathstar you can teach me how to do proper posts lol.

and good explantion.

[General Doom]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Good debate.

It really depends on what you are lying about.

There is an old saying; "You lie to protect the people you care most about".

That is true, but not really like younggold explained.

Say I'm on a date, I really do not like the person i'm with, I don't want to be rude, so i'll lie and tell them I need to go.

Say Like the tsunami, Someone comes back from a holiday, they didn't hear that someone they knew died with it, What are you going to do?

You could lie and say nothing, but then again, it would be more hurtfull when they do eventually find out.

Although, the person may have had fun, and really like you, and therefore try and contact you again, which means you will still have to tell her, but she will have gone through all the effort of finding you :-)

[hamster01]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Good debate.

It really depends on what you are lying about.

There is an old saying; "You lie to protect the people you care most about".

That is true, but not really like younggold explained.

Say I'm on a date, I really do not like the person i'm with, I don't want to be rude, so i'll lie and tell them I need to go.

Say Like the tsunami, Someone comes back from a holiday, they didn't hear that someone they knew died with it, What are you going to do?

You could lie and say nothing, but then again, it would be more hurtfull when they do eventually find out.

Although, the person may have had fun, and really like you, and therefore try and contact you again, which means you will still have to tell her, but she will have gone through all the effort of finding you :-)

Still, if she phones me, I could simply not answer, if she tries again, and I do answer the phone, then I could simply tell her i'm busy. If she keeps going on, then you tell her shes getting annoying.

I find it that women works in weird ways, mostly teenagers though; They plan everything, if it does not go as they imagined their perfect date to be, then they would eventually get pissed and ignore you.

[seanybob]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Regardless of where I agree or disagree... I would ask you this: What is a man's motive for always telling the truth? You can gain material gains such as money a lot easier by lying; why should a man tell the truth?

a man should tell the truth in order to convince someone that you are trustworthy or i could end up in you losing a buisness deal for not be trustworthy and not telling the truth.

Sadly though, in the real-world marketplace, liars and conniving schemers are at the top of the food chain. So if you're arguing that to "keep your business up" is a reason to tell the truth, I would say the opposite is true. If you wish to make it to the top, you have to lie to get there. Any other reasons you can think of?

 

Good debate.

It really depends on what you are lying about.

There is an old saying; "You lie to protect the people you care most about".

That is true, but not really like younggold explained.

Say I'm on a date, I really do not like the person i'm with, I don't want to be rude, so i'll lie and tell them I need to go.

While most people would say that's understandable, I could also see how people would label that as deceitful. Let me clarify what you said here... it's ok to lie so as not to hurt a person's feelings?

Say Like the tsunami, Someone comes back from a holiday, they didn't hear that someone they knew died with it, What are you going to do?

You could lie and say nothing, but then again, it would be more hurtfull when they do eventually find out.

I agree with ya here. Keeping news of the loss of a loved one (or just a friend) from someone is a serious lie that is almost never ok, partly because sooner or later they will notice and it will hurt even worse because of the lie. There are extreme circumstances, perhaps when the person is on the edge of shock or some such thing, when a temporary lie is necessary to protect their physical health; however, on a like note, it is something you should resolve to tell them as soon as it is realistically possible.

 

Still, if she phones me, I could simply not answer, if she tries again, and I do answer the phone, then I could simply tell her i'm busy. If she keeps going on, then you tell her shes getting annoying.

Remind me never to go out with you.

I find it that women works in weird ways, mostly teenagers though; They plan everything, if it does not go as they imagined their perfect date to be, then they would eventually get pissed and ignore you.

Seems like you are lumping half the human population into a rather loose generalization. While that may be true in your personal experience (something I would never attempt to rebut), it would be dangerous to label all of the female (teenage?) population like that.

[hamster01]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Regardless of where I agree or disagree... I would ask you this: What is a man's motive for always telling the truth? You can gain material gains such as money a lot easier by lying; why should a man tell the truth?

a man should tell the truth in order to convince someone that you are trustworthy or i could end up in you losing a buisness deal for not be trustworthy and not telling the truth.

Sadly though, in the real-world marketplace, liars and conniving schemers are at the top of the food chain. So if you're arguing that to "keep your business up" is a reason to tell the truth, I would say the opposite is true. If you wish to make it to the top, you have to lie to get there. Any other reasons you can think of?

I agree there, but also with that, people that tries harder and does not lie, some do get successful and very much respected.

But again, scamers, who thinks they have a business, tells lies and scam people the whole day, and they do get richer than most people.

 

Good debate.

It really depends on what you are lying about.

There is an old saying; "You lie to protect the people you care most about".

That is true, but not really like younggold explained.

Say I'm on a date, I really do not like the person i'm with, I don't want to be rude, so i'll lie and tell them I need to go.

While most people would say that's understandable, I could also see how people would label that as deceitful. Let me clarify what you said here... it's ok to lie so as not to hurt a person's feelings?

Yes, i'd rather have the guilt of just dumping the person rather than, maybe ruining her social/love live forever.

Say Like the tsunami, Someone comes back from a holiday, they didn't hear that someone they knew died with it, What are you going to do?

You could lie and say nothing, but then again, it would be more hurtfull when they do eventually find out.

I agree with ya here. Keeping news of the loss of a loved one (or just a friend) from someone is a serious lie that is almost never ok, partly because sooner or later they will notice and it will hurt even worse because of the lie. There are extreme circumstances, perhaps when the person is on the edge of shock or some such thing, when a temporary lie is necessary to protect their physical health; however, on a like note, it is something you should resolve to tell them as soon as it is realistically possible.

Still, if she phones me, I could simply not answer, if she tries again, and I do answer the phone, then I could simply tell her i'm busy. If she keeps going on, then you tell her shes getting annoying.

Remind me never to go out with you.

Will do..

I find it that women works in weird ways, mostly teenagers though; They plan everything, if it does not go as they imagined their perfect date to be, then they would eventually get pissed and ignore you.

Seems like you are lumping half the human population into a rather loose generalization. While that may be true in your personal experience (something I would never attempt to rebut), it would be dangerous to label all of the female (teenage?) population like that.

It may not be all of them, but most of the women(teenagers) I met is like that. It may just be the teenagers, hopefully..

[Absolute Zero]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

Let me spice this stuff up! I know seanybob is going to respond and I'm curious to what he will say :-)

I believe the following are acceptable lies, explanations go along with them.

Lie to Children

A lie-to-children is an expression, or more specifically a euphemism, that describes a lie told to make an adult subject, such as sex, acceptable to children. The most common example is "The stork brought you."

My thoughts: Telling a child the whole truth about sex wouldn't be to pleasant at a young age for the child would it?

Emergency lie

Emergency lie is a different kind of white lie, which is employed when the truth may not be told because, for example, harm to a third party would come of it. An example of such an emergency lie would be a neighbour lying to an enraged husband about the whereabouts of his unfaithful wife, because said husband might reasonably be expected to inflict physical violence should he encounter his wife in person. Although the moral integrity of the wife may certainly be put into question, the threat of violence is considered to be the more pressing issue, which could justify the lie in this case depending on the moral axioms employed.

My thoughts: telling this lie is alright because you don't want someone dead out of anger. When the husband and wife calm down they can talk over there problems like civil beings, not inflicting physical harm.

Story-Telling

Lie to make the story more interesting.

My thoughts: in other words, exaggerating is the key. Everyones done it and it is a form of lying IMHO.

Bluffing

Bluffing is an act of deception that is not usually seen as immoral because it takes place in the context of a game where this kind of deception is consented to in advance by the players. For instance, a gambler who deceives other players into thinking he has different cards than he really does, or an athlete who indicates he will move left and then actually dodges right, are not considered to be lying. In these situations, deception is accepted as a tactic and even expected.

My Thoughts: telling the truth always will not help you advance faster in a game of poker or other gambling/sports. Trickery/lieing is known to be part of the game, am I correct?

Well thats my thoughts, let the debate continue about lying :wink:

[Danny]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

depends on situation realluI Lie to people that no me

[Absolute Zero]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

depends on situation realluI Lie to people that no me

Why don't you lie to people you don't know?

[seanybob]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Let me spice this stuff up! I know seanybob is going to respond and I'm curious to what he will say :-)

I believe the following are acceptable lies, explanations go along with them.

:P

Let's roll...

 

Lie to Children

A lie-to-children is an expression, or more specifically a euphemism, that describes a lie told to make an adult subject, such as sex, acceptable to children. The most common example is "The stork brought you."

My thoughts: Telling a child the whole truth about sex wouldn't be to pleasant at a young age for the child would it?

I agree; in part.

Some lies to children are necessary, that is true. Sex would be one example. However (done correctly) this cannot be just a pure-lie... it has to have a follow-up where you eventually tell the child the truth (typically many years down the line, as they become a teenage). So it is more of a temporary lie to placate them until they need to know.

Now... what about Santa Claus? Or the easter bunny?

These are lies to children, while not necessarily adult subjects, they are common to almost all families. Why do people feel a need to hide the real reason we celebrate Christmas? I can almost understand how people might think a fat bearded man in a fluffy red suit who leaves presents, or a giant hopping bunny with colorful fur that hides eggs could entertain children... but to me, I'd much rather let my children know the real reasons these holidays are celebrated than engulf them into the lies and traditions man has put over these days. (this may just be me... I mean, I'm kinda predisposed towards certain imaginary characters... the tooth fairy always scared the heck outta me, I thought she'd watch me while I was sleeping, trying to steal my teeth)

 

Emergency lie

Emergency lie is a different kind of white lie, which is employed when the truth may not be told because, for example, harm to a third party would come of it. An example of such an emergency lie would be a neighbour lying to an enraged husband about the whereabouts of his unfaithful wife, because said husband might reasonably be expected to inflict physical violence should he encounter his wife in person. Although the moral integrity of the wife may certainly be put into question, the threat of violence is considered to be the more pressing issue, which could justify the lie in this case depending on the moral axioms employed.

My thoughts: telling this lie is alright because you don't want someone dead out of anger. When the husband and wife calm down they can talk over there problems like civil beings, not inflicting physical harm.

This lie has strings attached; while yes, to avoid a more pressing issue the lie had to be told, the issue would eventually be resolved, and the lie exposed, possibly causing more damage than telling the truth in the first place would have caused.

I agree with you in part (again). The husband had to be calmed down. However, he has to be told the truth, soon thereafter. The situation you described cannot end at a lie (but in your last statement, I think you acknowledged that)

Story-Telling

Lie to make the story more interesting.

My thoughts: in other words, exaggerating is the key. Everyones done it and it is a form of lying IMHO.

eh... I think stories based on truth are often the most interesting and best, but I'll accept this.

Bluffing

Bluffing is an act of deception that is not usually seen as immoral because it takes place in the context of a game where this kind of deception is consented to in advance by the players. For instance, a gambler who deceives other players into thinking he has different cards than he really does, or an athlete who indicates he will move left and then actually dodges right, are not considered to be lying. In these situations, deception is accepted as a tactic and even expected.

My Thoughts: telling the truth always will not help you advance faster in a game of poker or other gambling/sports. Trickery/lieing is known to be part of the game, am I correct?

yes... here 'lying' is a part of the game. It's accepted, and expected, and no ill-will is meant by it.

 

Overall, I'd say good points.

I have a couple questions for anyone who'd like to answer them.

Can we live without lies? (Are lies a necessary part of human interaction?)

Are lies a necesary part of a relationship?

Are there any relationships which should be 100% without lies?

[Absolute Zero]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks for the response, I also agree with what you had said.

Now to answer the following:

 

Can we live without lies? (Are lies a necessary part of human interaction?)

Are lies a necesary part of a relationship?

Are there any relationships which should be 100% without lies?

 

Can we live without lies? (Are lies a necessary part of human interaction?)

I don't think anyone can possibly know that question.

I for one can't think of a response, as I've spent 30 minutes just thinking about it.

I'll edit/post when I can think of one.

 

Are lies a necesary part of a relationship?

Well what kind of relationship may I ask?

Eg. Business, friend, family, love, spiritual?

Once I know that I think I may be able to answer.

 

Are there any relationships which should be 100% without lies?

Also depends which kind of relationship.

A spiritual relationship with you and your, lets say God, must be one without sin nor lie.

Practise what you preach.

----------------------------------

That's my two cents, update me on what kind of relationships you are talking about :-)

Fun debating seanybob :-P

[General Doom]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

Lies. There are only a few examples of a blatant lie.

All others can be broken down into many other things, such as;

If you have a friend that just got fired, you might say "It's all gona work out!" Where as it might not, this could be the end. But this is a lie to boost confidence, and also in some ways to help ourselves feel better. So is this a lie, or not?

Is it o.k to lie if we believe our God will justify it in his eyes, where as the other person may see it as a lie by his religion. Such as people blowing themselves up in name of what they think there God wants, where as others do not understand. Does the lie work one way in this case?

 

 

Can we live without lies? (Are lies a necessary part of human interaction?)

I don't believe we can. I think humans have to lie, to protect ourselves and others. For self gain, and to help others. Also, we may lie and not realise it.

 

Are lies a necesary part of a relationship?

That depends on the type of people that are in the relationship. If both partners argue, then go out and cheat on each other, but come back feel refreshed, and more in love with each other than ever, because they have both had a bit of freedom, the lie could grow worse with age, it could destroy what they have before it has chance to blossom into marriage and children or, it they could both confese (sorry for spelling) and live very ahppy lies, finally, it could never be mentioned, and eat away at them, but whilst they live there lives, full of love and passion.

 

Are there any relationships which should be 100% without lies?

Would England (for example) be a better place if we all knew exactly what was going on, all the time? Wouldn't there be more riots? And most probably alot more issues to sort out. Where as if we don't know about it untill it's been sorted out, we might be annoyed, but we can't say anything has changed, so why should we make a huge fuss? Where as hiding things on a level such as a relationship (as I said above) can have many roads, and only of which one can lead really lead to happiness, the truth, and the will to forgive those that are truly sorry.

-edited out- Not ready to talk about tht yet ^^

[seanybob]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

Can we live without lies? (Are lies a necessary part of human interaction?)

I don't think anyone can possibly know that question.

I for one can't think of a response, as I've spent 30 minutes just thinking about it.

I'll edit/post when I can think of one.

:) Excellent. It's a tough question, one I've mulled over for a long time myself.

 

Are lies a necesary part of a relationship?

Well what kind of relationship may I ask?

Eg. Business, friend, family, love, spiritual?

Once I know that I think I may be able to answer.

Any type, or all types. Take your pick :)

 

Are there any relationships which should be 100% without lies?

Also depends which kind of relationship.

A spiritual relationship with you and your, lets say God, must be one without sin nor lie.

Practise what you preach.

I imagine it would be kinda counterproductive to lie to an omniscient (all-knowing) God, mmhmm.

Indeed though, I agree there. I would like to expand my question: What degree of lies should relationships have, such as those with your wife, parents, brothers, friends, and enemies?

 

Fun debating seanybob :-P

I agree, your posts are thought-provoking

 

All others can be broken down into many other things, such as;

If you have a friend that just got fired, you might say "It's all gona work out!" Where as it might not, this could be the end. But this is a lie to boost confidence, and also in some ways to help ourselves feel better. So is this a lie, or not?

Yup. Anything that is not conveying the 100% truth is a lie. I find using extremes here is the easiest way to go. I hate terms like half-truths or white lies.

 

Is it o.k to lie if we believe our God will justify it in his eyes, where as the other person may see it as a lie by his religion. Such as people blowing themselves up in name of what they think there God wants, where as others do not understand. Does the lie work one way in this case?

I cannot speak from another religion's perspective - however, from Christianity, lies are sometimes acceptable, when you are doing God's work. I believe it was Rahab (I may be wrong) who lied to the authorities in Canaan, and hid two spies in her house, allowing them to escape and (eventually) bring Israel in. As well - in 2 Chronicles Chapter 18 God brought lying spirits onto the 'prophets' of the king, enticing him to go into battle and fail.

 

And Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord siting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. And the Lord said, 'Who will entice Ahab, the king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stoof before the Lord, saying, 'I will entice him'. And the Lord said to him, 'By what means?' And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the Lord said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.'

So perhaps a lie according to accomplish God's will is justified? (The trick would be figuring put what lies are according to his will)

 

Can we live without lies? (Are lies a necessary part of human interaction?)

I don't believe we can. I think humans have to lie, to protect ourselves and others. For self gain, and to help others. Also, we may lie and not realise it.

And generally, lies for self-gain are looked upon badly, while lies to help others are deemed ok - the problem being that lies to help others often harm them :(

 

Are lies a necesary part of a relationship?

That depends on the type of people that are in the relationship. If both partners argue, then go out and cheat on each other, but come back feel refreshed, and more in love with each other than ever, because they have both had a bit of freedom, the lie could grow worse with age, it could destroy what they have before it has chance to blossom into marriage and children or, it they could both confese (sorry for spelling) and live very ahppy lies, finally, it could never be mentioned, and eat away at them, but whilst they live there lives, full of love and passion.

You had a key phrase in there... "eat away at them".

Lies do that, almost inevitably. Why? Humans have a moral conscience that makes them feel guilty when they lie...

 

Are there any relationships which should be 100% without lies?

Would England (for example) be a better place if we all knew exactly what was going on, all the time? Wouldn't there be more riots? And most probably alot more issues to sort out. Where as if we don't know about it untill it's been sorted out, we might be annoyed, but we can't say anything has changed, so why should we make a huge fuss? Where as hiding things on a level such as a relationship (as I said above) can have many roads, and only of which one can lead really lead to happiness, the truth, and the will to forgive those that are truly sorry.

Here is a double edged sword... while some people love the freedom of knowing everything going on with their country (such as in America), terrorists or enemies also know what goes on - it's easy enough for them to turn on a TV and watch the news.

In closed countries, such as a dictatorship, enemies have no idea what is being planned, but then neither do the people. Where is the balance? Perhaps governments should be entrusted with keeping some things from the people, in order to ensure their effectiveness, but still have enough safeguards to ensure no one goes power crazy. Alas, I feel I just described a non-existent utopia

[HITMAN 17]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

when something is going wrong

[General Doom]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

I would class that as denial more than a lie, depending on circumstances. Such as:

You are late to pay your credit card bills, and you know they are going to start repo'ing things, but you tell your wife your going to pay it soon. This is a lie to protect her, but also a form of denial.

[UCC]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

I dont lie as a general rule. Here is the scenario when it is okay.

When the lie benefits the other person

When telling the truth would not hurt the other person

When you have nothing to gain by doing so

[Klikoka]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

i think its ok to lie if in the end you will telll the person/people the truth but then i suppose it isnt a lie

[carlg]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

I remember i court my mum in a lie and she said "I am not lying i was not telling the whole truth!!".

 

So in my conclusion you should never lie !!.

 

Just don't tell the whole truth. :mrgreen:

[Isomerizer]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

i remember i court my mum is a lie and she said i am not lying i was not telling the whole truth!!

 

so in my concludeshon u should never lie !!

 

and just don't tell the whole truth :mrgreen:

That made sense... And LOL @ the spelling of conclusion .. "concludeshon" wtf >_<

[Guest Anonymous]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

:lol: All ways lie to your gf cause they all ways think you are lieing never lie to any one els :lol:

[carlg]

Re: When is it ok to lie?

 

i remember i court my mum is a lie and she said i am not lying i was not telling the whole truth!!

 

so in my concludeshon u should never lie !!

 

and just don't tell the whole truth :mrgreen:

That made sense... And LOL @ the spelling of conclusion .. "concludeshon" wtf >_<

 

As you can tell, I can not spell very good i use spell check but my answer is not allways there.