Question for the pros

[Steve]

Hello Everyone, I am not a poster at all....I can generally find the answers to my wannabe noobish question by..YES, Simply using the search feature.

I will accept and understand that this question has most probably been brought up before.Lol my problem was I couldnt actually find that thread :P

Ok so here is what I am wondering....... At what point is it that a particular way of changing a (say...in a fresh install of MCC 2) game does it mean making a new modification, or changing the engine itself.

In my opinion by the time people download a version of the engine, then install sh1t tons of mods and variables in the game....Its not really the engine anymore...its a modified version of "said engine" <----- What is it that the said engine becomes?? Lol.

I confuse myself with the fact i feel the need to ask the general consensus for help with this answer...but the search feature does not answer my hypothetical ponderings :P

So.... The question is this ......

When are you making "mods" to be used with the base engine? Or just after so many modifications.. You made something new?!?

What decides a Base Engine???????????????

[Zeggy]

Mccodes isn't an engine - it's a complete game script. MCC comes with features already included. That's why every mcc game is basically the same. As far as I know mcc doesn't have an underlying 'base engine' but I could be wrong (I haven't studied mcc code).

Using an engine requires a lot of work because all it does is provide the groundwork. If you're using an engine you will need to implement all the game-specific features and decide on game mechanics.

I'd say, if you were to make changes to an engine, those changes would affect the entire game in some way. If the changes you make are only related to a single file, or only affect a single feature of the game, then you haven't really touched the engine.

[Taxed]

The term "Game Engine" refers to a complete gaming script that has all the core features needed to run a game. A gaming engine is simply a starting place for those who do not have the time, skill or dedication to build their own.

The problem is that so many people use the same gaming engine that their games are no longer unique. This is where modifications come in. By building, buying modifications for your basic game engine you can add unique qualities to the game.

I believe the reason McCodes is used by so many is the simple structure that it has. Health, Crystals, Nerve etc. So all a gaming engine is really, is a basic game structure.

Example.

McCode = McCode is a text based gaming engine that has a basic structure that is also familiar to many people.

Devana = Devana is an opensource massive multiplayer online browser strategy game, kinf of like tribal wars.

 

A gaming engine just gives you a basic starting point for a game. Although it is a complete game in itself, it usually fails without any unique features and upgrades.

Thats my take on a gaming engine.

[Zeggy]

You should be able to use the same game engine to create different games. Aren't all mcc games basically the same? Is there a strategy game coded from mcc, or a pet game coded from mcc? Would it be possible without a complete rewrite?

I disagree with Taxed.

 

McCode = McCode is a text based gaming engine that has a basic structure that is also familiar to many people.

Devana = Devana is an opensource massive multiplayer online browser strategy game, kinf of like tribal wars.

I don't see the difference. Both are complete game scripts.

According to your definition, I can create a complete game, make it open source or sell it and call it an 'engine'. Then what's the difference between a game engine and a game script whose source code you distribute?

[Taxed]

Zeggy, what I mean is that A game engine is the core structure of a game. Adding mods to it makes it the same engine still just a unique game.

If you wanted to make you own engine you would build the core structure from the ground up. Meaning the engine would have a different structure and game play. You can turn an McCode game into a pet game, wizard game, strategy game but the engine would remain the same. The core structure of the engine would not have changed so it would still be McCode engine.

Did i explain better that time?

[Zeggy]

Hmm.. So what's the 'core structure' of the mcc engine?

 

The term "Game Engine" refers to a complete gaming script that has all the core features needed to run a game. A gaming engine is simply a starting place for those who do not have the time, skill or dedication to build their own.

Well, this is where we disagree. I see game engines for web games to be analogous to game engines for video games. And game engines for video games are nowhere near complete games.

You can download the source code to the quake engine, but you are still nowhere near having a complete game, let alone quake.

[Taxed]

Zeggy a game engine is like a car engine. You can have different types of engines some more powerfull than others that provides the the core function of an engine which is movement. But you can also add a lot of extras to a car engine like turbos etc.

What im saying is a game engine is the core functionality you need such as cash, health, profiles, login, register, db structure and file structure. But the engine alone does not make a game, you need other modifications to use with the health and cash systems otherwise it does nothing.

So a game engine provides the core functionality of a game and the modifications work off of the core functionality. Thats the way game engines work, theres no two ways about it zeggy.

 

You basicly answered your own question with the quake example. You can donwload the soucre (the core functionality), but its doesnt make it a complete game becuase the core functions on their own pretty much do nothing, its the way you use the core functions that makes it a game.

Like McCodes core health feature would be nothing without an attack and hospital modification. But this isnt the only way to use it. In my game based off of GL your health can be lowered if you dont eat enough or you eat to much of the same thing. It never came like that, the engine only came with a basic health, attack and heal function. I then developed it to do what I wanted it to do. But it would have taken a lot lot longer if i were to build the entire health function from scratch.

So you see a game engine is not supposed to be a complete game, just a group of core functions ina specific structure to make development easier. Thats it.

[Zeggy]

lol I don't think you read my posts at all.

 

a game engine is the core functionality you need

That's exactly what I'm saying and what I've said in all my posts - a game engine is different from a complete game. Hence, mcc is not a game engine, it's a game script.

 

Thats the way game engines work, theres no two ways about it zeggy

Well, I thought this was a debate on the definition of game engine in the context of web based games, and you seem to be arguing both sides.

In case it wasn't clear, what I am arguing with you is whether or not mcc is a game engine. You think it is ("McCode is a text based gaming engine"), and I disagree.

Here's why mcc isn't a game engine:

One requirement (as we've agreed) is that a game engine needs to have the core features to run a game.

Yes, mcc has the core features required to run a game. Every game has the core features. Just by letting people download the source of your game doesn't make it a game engine.

An additional requirement is to be reusable. You cannot just reuse mcc code for a different kind of game because so many things have already been hardcoded into it - the theme, the features, all the gameplay. If you were to reuse mcc for a different type of game, you'd need to strip it down to the core features and make a lot of engines to the core features themselves.

You've said it yourself:

So a game engine provides the core functionality of a game and the modifications work off of the core functionality.

you see a game engine is not supposed to be a complete game

Game engine + Enhancements = Game

Is MCC not a complete game? If you downloaded it and installed it, would you not be able to start playing immediately?

[Steve]

Thanks for the replies.

I am really just getting started and have played with both the V1 and the V2 mccodes.

In v1 you get a database populated with crimes,weapons...most things needed for out of the box.

 

In v2 you dont get these and need to do the things such as figuring out the crime formula yourself. I guess why I was wondering at what point something would be called an engine is because in my opinion v1 is more ready to go and something I would refer to as an "engine". I am going to compare various cores though so I learn more about what source becomes a base engine.

Thanks

[Taxed]

So were on the same page about what an engine is. Guess I didnt put across my thoughts properly, its easy to portray the wrong message. lol

I still think McCode is a gaming engine though. Take rulers of Zu for example. The game was built from the McCode engine. Its not a typical gangster gang like most McCode games. A gaming engine should be adaptable like you say and I think that McCode is adaptable. The only thing that makes it a gangster style engine is the content and naming conventions, nothing to do with the core functions. You can make it into a pet game simply by renaming things and adding/editing existing features.

So I do think that McCode is infact a gaming engine. I also think Steve is onto something here aswell, V1 of McCode was more of an engine than V2. I think V2 became more of a game source rather than an engine because as steve put it, you dont get everything you need out of the box.

Theres definatley a fine line between the two, which is why im arguing between both sides. A gaming engine needs to be suggestive of a theme but adaptable at the same time.

[Zeggy]

I think V2 became more of a game source rather than an engine because as steve put it, you dont get everything you need out of the box.

So what you're saying is, if it came with everything you need, then it's a game engine.

Yet, earlier you said:

So you see a game engine is not supposed to be a complete game

Either I'm misunderstanding (again) or you seem to have conflicting arguments.

How does V1 being more complete make it more of an engine?

And everything is adaptable if you put enough work in it ;)

If you took mcc and renamed everything to be a different theme, all you've done is 'dressed it differently'. That's closer to taking a game and giving it a new name than taking a game and recoding it into something different.

[Taxed]

lol all im trying to say is that a gaming engine is built to be a starting point for building a game. If you want a torn city style game then you can use McCode as the starting point. If you want a bootleggers style game a good starting point is the Gangster Legends engine, a tribal wars style game I would use the devana engine.

Gaming engines are basicly a tool for building a curtain "type" of game. But at the end of the day an engine is just a tool.

Anyway im going to leave it at that, i should be sketching atm. lol

We do good debates though zeggy! :thumbsup:

[Joshua]

Anyway im going to leave it at that, i should be sketching atm. lol

Yes you should *shakefist*

^_-

[Taxed]

Anyway im going to leave it at that, i should be sketching atm. lol

Yes you should *shakefist*

^_-

lol, I havent forgotten about yours. Ill have it done by mid week.

[Joshua]

*taps foot*

j/k bud.

Whenever you got a sudo demo up lemme know :D

[Zero-Affect]

Anyway im going to leave it at that, i should be sketching atm. lol

Yes you should *shakefist*

^_-

Anyway im going to leave it at that, i should be sketching atm. lol

Yes you should *shakefist*

^_-

lol, I havent forgotten about yours. Ill have it done by mid week.

*taps foot*

j/k bud.

Whenever you got a sudo demo up lemme know :D

OffTopic care to visit the wonderful place of WE DON'T CARE? lol

Seriously though on topic i think MCC itself is not a engine nor would 200 modifications make it a custom engine. It's basically alot of SH!T shoved together and compiled into a game. Delete it and move on that's the best advice you'll ever get.

[Taxed]

OffTopic care to visit the wonderful place of WE DON'T CARE? lol

Seriously though on topic i think MCC itself is not a engine nor would 200 modifications make it a custom engine. It's basically alot of SH!T shoved together and compiled into a game. Delete it and move on that's the best advice you'll ever get.

Thats also true. Thats why I used Gangster Legends before starting work on my own engine. I plan on giving davana ago at some point aswell. The community is getting to a nice size now, surely means the engines a little more stable now.