badbull

@DougK This post was first started to give MCC owners the chance to show they were willing to work with us that had been scammed, rather than against us. Yet they still havent provided any of the details about Ravan, so those of us wishing to do so, can take our own legal action, in either private mail or in this forum. I have an appointment with a solicitor for later this week, and i will be seeing where i stand on a few different legal fronts regarding this debacle. As to what MCC owners should do morally and/or legally, the way they react will be what determines their payout in a court. By taking the hardline stance they are now, they will be lucky to get the $6000 (at 400 illegal copies sold at $15), no court will ever believe that all 400 (if thats an accurate figure) of us scammed would have paid $300 for the script. The only way they could get $300 per illegal copy sold, would be to license every illegal copy, and we all know that wont happen. Courts make their legal rulings based on points of law, but financial payouts are based on a mix of legal compensation and what is morally acceptable in the given situation. Noone is denying Ravan did the wrong thing, but the MCC owners moral stance will play the largest factor in determining their payout.

From a purely legal standpoint, the way things stand, they would only get the $6000 at a maximum (at 400 copies sold) if they were to get anything. As Ravan can counter, quite easily, that most of those 400 wouldnt have paid $300 to MCC due to the excessive price, with so many scripts being available under that price (I myself have another script i could be working with, that only cost $150). As for them giving a V1 license, thats as unlikely as giving us a V2 license, as they know we would all just convert our files to V2 anyway, its not hard.

As for it being unfair on CB and DB, in business there is a thing called goodwill, its what keeps customers happy and coming back. By showing that goodwill they would strengthen any legal action they take against Ravan, and have more chance of receiving proper restitution through the courts. By showing that goodwill, they would prove they are entitled to the $300 per illegal copy sold, as they have righted the wrong caused by the people at fault, Ravan. As it stands without that goodwill, they will be lucky to recoup the $15 made by Ravan per illegal copy sold. That my friend is basic law that i learnt 20 years ago in high school, and have seen in practice throughout my working life. Im no lawyer and dont pretend to be, but i am well versed in law because of some of the jobs ive held over the last 20 years. I am actually looking right now to see if i can adapt the lite version to fit in with my game, as most pages have been changed to suit my needs. As for your statement that no support needed to be provided, sorry to say, but you are wrong (in both a legal and moral sense). If a product can be proven to be faulty or defective (and all the security holes would class as a defect), support or refunds should be provided. Heres a few examples: 1. Microsoft provide that support in with their security updates and patches. 2. Sony replace a defective item. 3. Shops refund your money if a product bought in their store is broken/damaged. I can name more if you'd like, but that should prove my point (and i think thats the point CrimGame is tryin to make when he complains). This isnt a matter of not liking the software, far from it. This is a matter of the right thing being done.

lol, i know im not the first to have told u :D (i may not post much, but i have read most of the posts on here), its all good.

Like i said, i dont know what MCC support is like, so i obviously didnt know they had provided none for the last 2 years or so. One little tip, if people think you are angry, its because you come across as angry (no offence meant mate, but thats how you came across).

Mate, chill out, im not saying you've done anything wrong and if you got that impression, you really need to reread my post. Please go back and read this post properly from the beginning, dont just skim through it, read it. After you have read it properly, tell me where i say you or anyone else that has made money from securing sites have done the wrong thing. I never said me gaining knowledge was wrong, and i never said you making money was wrong (to be perfectly honest, i applaud all of you for making money and helping people at the same time, you saw a legitimate business opportunity). The only ones i have said have done the wrong thing are Ravan, and thankfully noone has tried to dispute the fact Ravan did the wrong thing. As to how much support MCC gives, i wouldnt know, so i wont make any assumptions about that. I suppose im one of the lucky ones, i never needed support from Ravan either.

CrimGame, im sure yourself and a few others have made money from securing other peoples sites, i have a message in my inbox from you dated June 9th offering a 10% discount on your services at securing. So i think you have probably made more money than you spent on the script, therefore you have been more than reimbursed. Yes the price they ask is steep and yes a lot more security is needed, im not denying either of those facts. But yet you are still here, you still work on mods (i assume) and securing other peoples sites. As to Ravan editing the script, they dont really seem to have made many changes from what ive seen (granted, i am a noob, so i could be missing the finer points). But this post was started for constructive feedback, not to bash CB and DB. Congratulations on making your own script (with help), but lets face it, there's a lot of us that arent anywhere near that level. As for how much we owe CB and DB, i suppose thats relative. For someone like myself, their code has helped me learn the basics, its given me a chance to learn something new, and im of the opinion that knowledge is very important. So regardless of whether i end up buying a license or scrapping the script, i owe them quite a lot. For someone like yourself, you might want to think how much you have made securing other peoples sites, coz lets be honest, thats how much you have gained.

SlanderDesign (and any other member caught up in this scam), i think for Ravan to be truly punished for what they did wrong, they should face multiple legal cases, or maybe even a group action lawsuit (although i dont know how this would be possible, as we are spread around the globe). Not only would this hamper Ravans efforts, it would also show the gaming community, that we are willing to stand behind CB and DB, that we dont want to use stolen software, that we are wanting to run legitimate businesses. This would do more to show the gaming community that MCC is a force, than any other action, as it isnt just the creators of the code wiling to fight. Djkanna, i agree, this has definitely taken the fun out of things. In my opinion this has started the decline of what seemed to be a great community (thankfully everyone that has posted in this post has been constructive, unlike other posts ive read in the last few days), i really hope im wrong, i hope the community can grow from this and become stronger. Also, thanx for wishing me luck :thumbsup:

Dominion, i fully agree that CB and DB should be fully reimbursed for the time and effort it took to make MCC originally. And yes, personally i agree, Ravan should be made to pay $300 per illegal copy sold. As for the webhost not being willing to talk to them, they wont have any choice when the matter is before the court. I like your idea for those of us that were scammed, receiving a free license, but unfortunately i doubt that will happen.

Being one of the people scammed by Ravan scripts, i now find myself in the position where i have to obtain legal advice to see where i stand. As all of you know, a lot of time goes into setting a game up, its not just a matter of uploading it to a server and away you go. I've spent countless hours working on a script that it now seems im going to have to scrap or pay even more money to use, that decision will be made after ive sought legal advice and weighed all the options. ColdBlooded and Dabomstew could be suing under the premise of loss of potential earnings (they would actually have more chance of success if they filed their suit this way), and that way, truly punish the people who sold their code illegally (im not arguing that point), but instead, those of us that have suffered by Ravans deception are being made to suffer (there are enough precedents in copyright law for Ravan to walk away from this, without it costing them a cent). Its time to see if ColdBlooded and Dabomstew are serious about shutting down Ravan. If they are, they will pass on any relevant information about Ravan to those of us that were scammed so we can take our own legal action. There is a lot more to this than just the $15 paid for the script, there is time spent on making adjustments and loss of potential earnings due to that time being wasted.

im a noob to coding (but trying to learn). ive installed the code that MyGunWars listed, and after a few changes got it working (i think, at least i got it to stop showing errors and load a game page lol). one thing i am wondering tho, is how do i get it to run the cron files? im not sure which lines of code to move from the cron files to this script and where they should be placed. any help would be greatly appreciated