SirChick

Surround it with : [ code ] script here [/ code] but remove the spaces in the square brackets....

Should always minify you're code on you're live sites when you finish being beta etc :)

LearningCoder if you don't know how to change layouts why on earth do ya think you're experienced enough to run a game ? Take a step back you're running before you can walk.

I'll give that it doesn't mention it .. but thats all i'm giving you :P Click the "but" link at the bottom of the page it gives plenty of resources regarding graphical games. But the link was setup for graphical games - the maker didn't really specify blame him :P

You would need alot more fundamentals before those 3 additional things to even have a game that was playable. AND In what universe do you count MCcode a graphical game engine ?????????????????? THIS is a graphical game engine: http://www.isogenicengine.com/ this uses JS (but its not free)   MCCode is a TEXT based browser PHP/HTML - perhaps the simplest way to make a computer game on earth these days. Hes on about an RPG in a graphical sense.... from age of empires to WoW (persistant) - only he wants a basic 2D tiled browser based game - which he could achieve i'd say in 2 months after he's learnt the language sufficiently enough to make one which i would say is another month on top if hes completely new to javascript/PHP

And how long do you think you could do it on you're own ?   Create an engine, networking systems, server management, all the graphics, all the sound productions, all the GUIs, player support systems, staff management systems, payment systems. Create all the quests, stories, voice acting, support forum, managing the support forum. Then there Q&A testing, promoting etc. Did you think it was that simple :S ? The research was done by many across many game development sites. Take Age of Empires 1 for example: http://www.allgame.com/game.php?id=714&tab=credits A team of 30+ taking 2 years to make the game, doing it on you're own will take massively longer.

Almost sure i read this thread some where before =/ Anyway... This depends if you want to use canvas or not. If you don't know you need to research more about canvas vs non canvas tile based game designs, before even attempting a tile based RPG. Also are you looking to do 2D or 2.5D ? 2.5D is not too much more difficult minus some small mind bending maths regarding mouse position to game position stuff (it confused me for a while). Canvas is a more exciting prospect (which is the route i took) as it eventually allows you to go to 3D should you learn at an advance level and improve the game over the next few years. Its reasonably easy to get some tiles drawn on a canvas, specially if you have had a bit of C++ or C language experience. Not much PHP involved with something like this other than calling and inserting data and for verifying data, this involves ajax requests (pretty easy to do) but you have to be careful for people trying to exploit the game and cheat. The rest is all client side. If you don't plan to make you're own engine which seems very likely >.> then look into some of these libraries: Client side: JQuery MooTools Protocol Server side: APE (Ajax Push Engine) this is for long pulling Also i think Comet is another one. To produce a reasonably good working basic game for this, will take 2 months maybe, for a game with a decent amount of features how ever more like a year, just so you're prepared. It's quicker if you work with a team. This is before you even start doing graphic design (or you pay some one which is often £10 to £50 per image some times for high quality) The 3 games you listed are quite low quality graphics so you can probably save money there. Take a look at this: http://yourgameideaistoobig.com/ tick the boxes you want for you're game design - this shows some accurate cost involve (if you hired some one to do it) and also shows some realistic time scales which was researched for some time. I'm assuming you want other players to see other players, aka like a live action RPG? In which case you should do some research on JavaScript web-sockets. This caters to a different aspect than long pulling, you need both for different things. But not all support JS web-sockets so you might want to consider flash web-sockets. Web-sockets are rather new to browser world and not fully supported yet. This then also asks if you want it to work on handheld devices/tablets - which means it needs to support touch screen event handlers. This was what made me chose canvas: http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/ its really awesome and inspired me :P

Because it doesn't stop people from being able to get the text + images .... so its a waste of code. You simply press f12 (on chrome) for example and its all there for that taking. The same reason why you cannot hide you're page source, although there is a way to do it, its a waste of time people can still grab it with push of a single button on the keyboard.

Canvas and it has a combination of 3D and 2D - the 3D is mainly the characters and buildings, things like weather effects are 2D layered on top.   I'm making the engine :P Not using some one else's. What i mean by making it look humanish is the AI not the animation, animation is just down to the amount of work spent in a Render program. It could pick the shortest route every time, but the path might look a bit non human, specially in a isometric perspective, for example "clinging" to the edges of walls and following it, instead of staying more in the middle of the path it is walking on etc. Yes it is intensive but you can reduce how intense it is with alot of tweaks.

I consider each aspect its own mini engine that a "main" engine binds them all together, all made from scratch, and its client side JS or thats my aim i have only done about half of it so far. (I'm not looking forward to the particle engine part). You say its not hard but JS manipulating graphic objects is rather new in HTML5, there are no real games that have mastered it yet because browsers still have not perfected a decent standard. Pixel detection for collision maps not really support by most browsers, there is a way to do it but it ain't efficient by any measure. - there for yes it is much harder - given browsers are only just allowing JS to use such powerful stuff now - it was not really possible before. Path finding is quite hard but for different reasons - not so much the implementation but keeping it low intensity + making it look "human ish" and thats before taking into account any live action. There are a few path finding algorithms to pick from, A* is often the favourite algorithm (used in Age of Empires) but the challenge is to make it non intensive. You also have to consider live action between people online means the obstacles are moving (aka other players moving), so you have to work that into it as well. In C++, its not so bad you can loop a good half a million times a second, if a browser could do that = amazing, but it simply cannot lol so you have to think out of the box (maybe one day browsers will be able to execute code that well but C++ is always going to be more powerful i think).   Stable Frame rate is not important, what is important is keeping it "above" a level that people can detect as smooth. Ranges from 30 to 60. I aim for 60 FPS so i can afford to drop down alot but i put a cap at 60 as i don't believe you will notice much above 60, but all browsers draw at different efficient levels, thats before taking into account people's PC hardware so there is an extra issue to consider unlike conventional Window's games. When the game reaches 30 i have had to work out ways to make the game "ditch" unimportant stuff to keep the FPS up.. the issue with no doing that, will cause out of sync visuals to other players in a live interaction on a map...again there is limited information on this but the isogenic engine seems to have managed it so it is possible - i'll work it out eventually, i have been researching into web sockets to possibly solve the sync issues. You say some of these things are not hard but could you make them from a blank page which is the point of the thread really, many simply would not because they could not (ignore the fact its waste of time - whilst it is if you have already learn it - it is not a waste of time to make it from scratch to learn it). To make a graphics engine is easily 2 + years work in C++ its probably longer in JS due to limited information/examples and technology limits, so yes it is by far harder than a PHP browser based engine which can't do any of these fancy graphical things.   Thats no good :( specially as im trying to make an engine - its all good relying on some engine, but again why not challenge yourself and make it from a blank page like myself, you learn a lot!!! After all what good is being a programmer if you don't learn how it all works :D Part of being a programmer is enjoying learning the stuff not just patching stuff together to make something work. This is a nice attempt by some one : This is what inspired me to make my own. Glacial Flame was later abandoned how ever due to too much work involved but the particle engine was quite good. When you consider its all in HTML and JS nothing else, same as many PHP browser games you already know of or play, its quite impressive, albeit performance wise its "so so" but it's getting there v.quickly!

Depending on the engine, yes. I'm making a graphical engine in JS, something you couldn't do in PHP its just not the language for it, you have to start thinking about things like frame rate, collision detection at pixel level, fractional pixel movements, shaders, particle engines...physics engine, path finding algorithms. Really difficult to do it from scratch but i know how to now, its been a long and challenging 2 years of learning - making constant scripts that fail massively till i eventually got it to work, some times i had to disscet some C++ game source code to see how they approach things more efficiently :P But i find it fun personally im sure others would lose patience very quickly. Then there is the networking using web sockets and long polling systems for "live action" between players, calling a server has to be efficient when you scale to many thousands of players, its difficult to know when making an engine, if it is the best it can be or if you have not heard about a better method. I can assure you its ALOT harder than PHP if you use JS to its full capabilities. I'm not referring to things like Travian, which is heavy JS but it does not have a render engine, its simply manipulating the elements on the screen. So yes JS is harder - depending on what you're using it for... if you use it to just make PHP browser game more slick then no.

They have different uses so it depends on what you want to achieve. For logo design for example, Photoshop is not the best adobe product to use.

Well thats a good point :P Though i do not see the logic in using PHP for a windows application, but i guess it shows PHP is evolving and improving ! But i can't imagine its as efficient as lower level languages unless it requires strict level PHP .

Once you make an engine in PHP you could try C++ game engine.... 100 times harder but if you can achieve it you can make some really cool games. Or try a JavaScript game engine - found JS harder than PHP because of all the objects you have to handle. And constantly trying to FPS up to at least 60.

You disagree only because you do not the fit the group of people im referring to. Because you spend the time to learn and understand it not just take it for granted as per the entire point my thread was on about. The thread is on about you ONLY if any thing i said rings true. So try not justify yourself by defending yourself, because then you just make it seem like the thread is aimed at you. But we both know the type of people im referring to - v.much exist. The whole point of being a game developer is also being able to make an engine if were talking about having a career in it. All companies make their own engines they don't "google it". Of course some companies make really bad engines which ruins games.