mahks

New episode just beginning, could use a half dozen more testers.

The tutorial has been axed in favour of in-game hint panels.

Chrome working 100% now

Update : 2 new in game options : - Design your own ships - Negotiate Treaties with Independent stars (NPCs) Chrome has fixed the iframe visibility problem so I have got it 98% working in chrome now. Just some incompatible things with canvas. Graphics marginally improved, I updated the images in post # 1 Tutorial re-done, simplified, got rid of the videos, now text pop-up based. Could use some new blood to test the tutorial...

Did you try the game? Any comments?

I have both issues, I can see "hidden" iframes in the browser. and I cannot select anything "under" "hidden" empty iframes with "inspect element" from the context menu.

Yes, that is what shows at the moment...try : Right-click and select "inspect element" from the context menu. What do you get? I get a "hidden" iframe. (id='f_load') actually the HTML tag, but on the hidden iframe

Uninstalled Chrome & re-installed. I changed no setting, same issues. This is on Windows 7 Pro

Don't remember changing any settings except in dev tools, and that is not open. Would you mind following those steps in post#27 and see if the iframes are visible in your browser & clickable in dev tools? Thanks!

Version 31.0.1650.63 m [ATTACH=CONFIG]1244[/ATTACH]

Slight change to your fiddle, seems to only be if the hidden attribute is on an iframe But a weird thing, click RUN, displays as expected click UPDATE, boing! So may only be when the attribute is set via javascript!? http://jsfiddle.net/BHWN2

I am pretty sure that when display:none is set you will not be able to use scrollTo on that or sub-elements. Whereas visibility:hidden will still let you do this (and much else).

Try this, create an iframe{visibility:hidden;width:100%;height:100%;z-index on top of all else. in dev tools you cannot click on anything "under" it even though it is hidden. In the browser the iframe will still be visible even though it is hidden. Of course, not knowing what I am doing may be part of the problem and I am missing the obvious, but found several posts online about this. Asked stackoverflow question "chrome guy" seemed to think it a bug and reported it. I did find it strange, I would find a bug on my first day working with Chrome... If you want to test, go to My website Click Chrome logo in corner. Click "Manual" button Right-click and select "inspect element" from the context menu. What do you get? A "hidden" iframe. If you can see something I did wrong, please enlighten me. I would like to get Chrome working...

Looks like I'll have to give up on the Chrome conversion. Seems Chrome has issues with iframe & visibility ... a hidden iframe isn't. Tried to change to using display rather than visibility, got all swapped, then realized why I used visibility in the first place! Arrrgghh. Display collapses the dimensions of an object, visibility does not. So you can't use display:none and referrer to things like clientWidth. Unless I am missing something? Looks like Chrome is not ready yet. ;) Will ensure the homepage can be seen in Chrome as per suggestions above, Thanks. Does anyone actually develop using Chrome? If so what tools do they use? The native dev-tools and firebug-lite seem pretty lame.

I don't really understand how that works... wrappers I mean.

I am not familiar with C#. You saying people who would not download Firefox would download an exe?

Nothing that prevents other browsers from working (that I know of) The problem is, it was not written as a cross-browser app. (for reasons mentioned above) So it has to be converted to cross-browser. Because I have never coded for cross-browser, I know nothing of the details. So there is a leaning curve. The massive amount of posts I have seen on the dev sites dealing with cross-browser issues, makes me cringe in anticipation... After Firebug the Chrome Dev-Tools are pitiful. That is slowing me down too. Loaded Firebug-lite for Chrome...not much better. The app is large and complex so I am just aiming to just get the home page converted for Chrome. See how that goes. So far I have only had to change some CSS and EventListeners.

Your the second post to mention adding screenshots. Are the screenshots not showing in post # 1 above? If you mean on the site, yes getting there, slowly... I have made some videos, I think they chase people away, more than anything. I suck at making videos. :( YouTube Channel How do you make a video about a "cerebral" game that isn't boring? I keep thinking if I had just invented chess, how would I promote it? A video of 2 people sitting across from each other staring at a table of little statues. How popular would that be on YouTube?

Working on that now, for reasons you mentioned and to see how hard Chrome will be to convert into.

I appreciate criticism. Sometime it just takes awhile for it to sink in. OK, I'll rephrase; Those who think its "Not worth the effort" to download firefox will think the game is "Not worth the effort" to learn to play. :p A good example of what I am talking about is my experience with the tutorial. My first play testers were friends, not overly computer literate or familiar with 4X games. Unsurprisingly the tutorial design evolved to accommodate that type of person. When "real" 4X players began to test, they were appalled by the "insulting" nature of the tutorial. I came to understand that people like those first testers would never play the game. Then the tutorial evolved to accommodate the real target audience. I do acknowledge that it not being cross-browser is a problem. Its not that I want to force people to use Firefox. The problem is a byproduct of the history of the game (see post 4 above) If I had tried to build it cross-browser in the beginning, it would never of came to be. Now things are different. It may be possible to get Chrome to run it, I think IE is still too far off spec.

Goes to website -> Sees requirement for firefox -> Clicks the "download latest version of firefox" button But, I get what you all are saying, limiting the player base would be a bad thing if profit was the motive. The game is a bit complex and requires a certain amount curiosity and intelligence to play. A player who has a block against the firefox download would probably not enjoy the game. Not that I am accusing people of being unintelligent. What I mean is if the mindset is "it's too difficult" then the game will be "to difficult" All that said, I am looking at getting Chrome to work.

People download games all the time. How is downloading a browser to play a game any different?

When I started this project (6 years ago) browsers were a mess, IE was so far out of sync with the rest, you almost had to write a separate page for it. IE did not support the new HTML 5 tags, which I really wanted to use. Chrome was either non-existent or still in its infancy, all other browsers had tiny user bases. Was just informed of the market share Chrome has now, wow, so am looking into getting it to work. If it does not require a massive rewrite, I'll go at it. Why not download Firefox in the meantime? It is a free, painless and fast download/install.

Why would I create yet another 4X Space game? Because all 4X I have played had poor AI and a lack of strategic & diplomatic scope. I define strategy as the following : Planning : This is a time element thing. Games usually permit a player to react fairly quickly to an unexpected situation. Fast reaction time eliminates the need for planning. Logistics : Dealing with the logistics must not be onerous, but its effect has to be there so it affects decisions. This aspect can present many strategic opportunities, like cutting lines of supply, interdicting re-enforcements and the need for intelligence regarding it. Intelligence : Lack of information can really add a lot of intrigue to a game. For this, fog of war is a must and it has to be persistent (what I mean is, if you have no assets at a location, you have little, none or old info about it). Manoeuvre : Major & minor battles, feints, diversions, supply & trade disruption, siege, retreat, looting and scouting all add to strategic scope. Many games seem to devolve into placing the majority of assets in one big fleet and going on a rampage. Basically a FPS and about as far from the type of strategy I am talking about as you can get. All these aspects of strategy are available in other genres, but rarely in a 4X. So here is my answer to that : Game overview : 4X space game Browser based, only runs in firefox Closed Beta status Basic 2d graphics Strong focus on grand strategy & diplomacy No action, not a RTS & no tactical control Role play possible Not commercial, this will never be a pay to play. (it's my hobby) Here are some screen shots & reasons why this 4X may be different : The manoeuvre element is the fleet. Fleets move between stars by an instantaneous jump, but then must wait while the jump engine re-charges. This slows down the pace of the game, giving you time to plan. It creates the feel of a turn based game, even though it is a persistent universe. Fleet movement may be automated. Patrol routes may be created to look for enemies. Gathering routes take minerals to stars with a refinery. This works kind of like railway tycoon. Other routes may be configured to move new ships to the front, return the battle weary for R & R, etc. There is an emphasis on diplomacy. Much effort has gone into creating organic "situations" that evolve into diplomatic crisis. These come about from conflict between several realms of influence. These being political relationships, trade, military actions, resource access and a feudal hierarchy. Trade is encouraged by a mechanism whereby the number of types of minerals governs the efficiency of your refineries and thus your limits to production of assets. Since only a few mineral types are found locally you must trade with other areas to gain more mineral types. The game is not played in "binges" (hours in a session) but in short play sessions. Think of a normal 4X that has its play session sliced into bits. This is by design, so that those with real lives may fit it into a busy schedule (or a fanatic gamer can play a session between all those other games) allowing them to play a deep, involving game even though "they have no time". Several people have interpreted this to mean it is a tick based game, it is not. Once your realm has grown, there is always things that need to be done, it is just not all time sensitive. Fog of war is constant. If you have no ship or spy at a star you do not know what is there, you only know what was there last time you visited. This permits a "cat & mouse" situation, where cunning can win out. Building assets takes a long time. This creates pressure to plan, as you cannot react immediately to a new threat by "popping out" fleets of new ships at a moments notice. You can build & assign additional builders to speed up a project, but there is cost there as well. A large selection of technologies are available that affect all aspects of the game. There is no "tech tree" you just research the areas you want an advantage in. you may choose to be mediocre in all or focus on a few that complement your overall strategic direction. There is a robust economic model that provides many ways to gain income and many ways to lose it. Taxation, tribute, piracy, export contracts, asset support, salaries are some of the factors. In the beginning you manage all aspects, but as your empire grows you can do less micro-management and automate repetitive tasks. There is a whole game within the game in regards to spies. Covert agents may conduct espionage, sabotage, incite labour or student unrest and incite rebellions. They can embezzle, slander and assassinate as well. The game progresses though stages; exploration, build-up, contact and then the core game play begins with diplomacy, trade & conflict. There is a play through of a typical 1st session on the website. The game begins slowly as you are mostly exploring and colonising, so the video may be a bit boring. Any suggestions on how to present a "cerebral" game and not make the presentation boring? This slow start is intentional as the game is complex and is designed so that a new player is not overwhelmed and has time to get his bearings. http://www.starlords3k.com We need a few more play testers, pm me if interested. All feedback is welcome.